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> Who do you want to be able to spy on you I buy chinese IP cameras. China cannot block my bank account / employment / communications.

by seydor 2y ago

dijit 2y ago
Agreed. All this fearmongering about telegram and tiktok is weird. China can decide what it wants from me- I have no plans to visit or engage with regime; however my life is dependent on the US not thinking of me as interesting. So, the less I give to US companies, the better. Especially as, being a non-US citizen I have no right to privacy afforded to me in the constitution, and US companies can be forced to comply with the government in secret- much in the same way we consider that China does it to even part-owned China based companies.
- sfink 2y ago
  > Especially as, being a non-US citizen I have no right to privacy afforded to me in the constitution Say what? Ok, there is no explicit "right to privacy" anywhere in the US Constitution, but that applies equally to citizens and non-citizens. Whatever is in the Constitution applies to everyone regardless of citizenship, with only a few exceptions. And those exceptions don't have much to do with anything you might refer to as privacy. (They're about whether state governments can mess with you. And were I a non-citizen, it's the states that I would be worried about, given that many of them are actively trying to make things harder for non-citizens.) Unreasonable search and seizure, in particular, applies to everyone. The courts have repeatedly affirmed this. Unless you're talking about non-citizens outside US borders, or crossing them? That's much murkier.
- ruraljuror 2y ago
  The concern over tiktok is not that Xi’s autocratic regime is surveilling you, but manipulating the algorithms in its large social media market share to foment anti-American (& anti-Israeli) sentiment.
  - whatnotests2 2y ago
    Isreal is doing just fine, drumming up dissent, based on it's behavior alone.
    - ilbeeper 2y ago
      Right. That, and a few hundred million petrodollars
  - tracerbulletx 2y ago
    Russia seems totally capable of doing that just by paying people and using bots.
    - ruraljuror 2y ago
      No. Not at the scale of Tiktok.
    - Sabinus 2y ago
      Indeed, but that doesn't mean you should expose the youth more to belligerent foreign controlled agitprop information channels.
      - roenxi 2y ago
        What is the real risk here? The only thing they can really do is make the case that if China invades Taiwan then the US shouldn't get involved. There problem is they might well be right; if I compare Hong Kong and Ukraine, I'd expect Taiwan would be better off going with the HK model of an "invasion" rather than fighting an actual war with the world's #2 or arguably #1 economy. So I'm not sure what the case is for quelling the message; there are some important issues there to debate. Even if we start with the questionable idea that the US has the moral and physical might to be deciding where the borders are drawn in Asia; it isn't obvious that TikTok would be influential enough to matter. The military-industrial complex lobbyists in the US have a lot of actual power in pushing for war and experience in getting messages to the public.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  The constitution does not exclusively apply to US citizens is the good news. The bad news is that there is no explicit and broad right to privacy in the constitution. You are protected by the fourth amendment requiring a warrant for searches and seizures, but the court has ruled that, citizen or not, if a third party like Meta willingly hands over your info, it’s fair game. L
  - tiansu_yu 2y ago
    JFK asks to take a photo of you when leaving US. Only US citizens can object that based on privacy. Thats the moment you know, as a foreigner, you have no privacy in this country. And honestly, I would not expect America to care for that.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  > So, the less I give to US companies, the better. and all of a sudden, you're interesting.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    You shouldn't be downvoted, the whole industry ought to know by now that Palantir aggregates multiple international sources of data for sale to American defense agencies. If you're legitimately afraid of America, the internet has few places of refuge.
- nindalf 2y ago
  > my life is dependent on the US not thinking of me as interesting Why do people engage in this sort of larping, like they're secret agents or intellectuals that may be hunted at any moment by the grey suits in western governments? We know it's not true for this person in particular because one click on their HN profile tells you their real name. I stopped there, but I'm sure there is plenty of additional info available with 3-4 more clicks. If they were really so afraid of government reprisal like this larping suggests, maybe they'd attempt to be at least a little pseudo-anonymous. The actual fact is that 99.9999999999% of us are boring and will remain boring no matter what kind of comments we write on HN. It wouldn't hurt to touch grass once in a while.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > China can decide what it wants from me- I have no plans to visit or engage with regime; however my life is dependent on the US not thinking of me as interesting If you have something of interest to Beijing and you’re doing something shameful or illegal in America, and they have evidence, they have leverage. This is human asset development 101. Most people don’t have skills or information relevant to a foreign state. But some do, and for them being mindful about not giving a foreign adversary blackmail leverage is prudent.
- cryptonector 2y ago
  "You have no privacy, get used to it!" -Scott McNealy Scott was not saying "you should have no privacy"; he was making a statement of fact. That was nearly two decades ago, and he was prescient and right.
- babkayaga 2y ago
  cleber. but china can blackmail you into working for them. you will have no recourse if it does.
  - dijit 2y ago
    Blackmail me how? By giving information to the people who would have had it otherwise? Hardly a defensible position to blackmail someone from.
    - pvaldes 2y ago
      Anybody that has lots of videos from you could train a deep fake realistic model and create a fake video depicting you committing a major crime. Sadly blackmail is the easier part.
      - dijit 2y ago
        I am failing to understand why I would prefer the US to have the ability to do this over China though.
        pvaldes 2y ago
        This depends on if you can vote to change the presidents of US or China or not.
        dijit 2y ago
        I can do neither.. that's kinda my point. I have super powers on both sides, one can influence the policies and politics of my country much stronger than the other[0]. Why would I choose that side, they don't give me more rights and they don't give me any capacity to complain. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15920618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15920618
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

> Who do you want to be able to spy on you I buy chinese IP cameras. China cannot block my bank account / employment / communications.

by seydor 2y ago

> Who do you want to be able to spy on you I buy chinese IP cameras. China cannot block my bank account / employment / communications.

dijit 2y ago

Agreed. All this fearmongering about telegram and tiktok is weird. China can decide what it wants from me- I have no plans to visit or engage with regime; however my life is dependent on the US not thinking of me as interesting. So, the less I give to US companies, the better. Especially as, being a non-US citizen I have no right to privacy afforded to me in the constitution, and US companies can be forced to comply with the government in secret- much in the same way we consider that China does it to even part-owned China based companies.

sfink 2y ago
> Especially as, being a non-US citizen I have no right to privacy afforded to me in the constitution Say what? Ok, there is no explicit "right to privacy" anywhere in the US Constitution, but that applies equally to citizens and non-citizens. Whatever is in the Constitution applies to everyone regardless of citizenship, with only a few exceptions. And those exceptions don't have much to do with anything you might refer to as privacy. (They're about whether state governments can mess with you. And were I a non-citizen, it's the states that I would be worried about, given that many of them are actively trying to make things harder for non-citizens.) Unreasonable search and seizure, in particular, applies to everyone. The courts have repeatedly affirmed this. Unless you're talking about non-citizens outside US borders, or crossing them? That's much murkier.
ruraljuror 2y ago
The concern over tiktok is not that Xi’s autocratic regime is surveilling you, but manipulating the algorithms in its large social media market share to foment anti-American (& anti-Israeli) sentiment.
- whatnotests2 2y ago
  Isreal is doing just fine, drumming up dissent, based on it's behavior alone.
  - ilbeeper 2y ago
    Right. That, and a few hundred million petrodollars
- tracerbulletx 2y ago
  Russia seems totally capable of doing that just by paying people and using bots.
  - ruraljuror 2y ago
    No. Not at the scale of Tiktok.
  - Sabinus 2y ago
    Indeed, but that doesn't mean you should expose the youth more to belligerent foreign controlled agitprop information channels.
    - roenxi 2y ago
      What is the real risk here? The only thing they can really do is make the case that if China invades Taiwan then the US shouldn't get involved. There problem is they might well be right; if I compare Hong Kong and Ukraine, I'd expect Taiwan would be better off going with the HK model of an "invasion" rather than fighting an actual war with the world's #2 or arguably #1 economy. So I'm not sure what the case is for quelling the message; there are some important issues there to debate. Even if we start with the questionable idea that the US has the moral and physical might to be deciding where the borders are drawn in Asia; it isn't obvious that TikTok would be influential enough to matter. The military-industrial complex lobbyists in the US have a lot of actual power in pushing for war and experience in getting messages to the public.
dghlsakjg 2y ago
The constitution does not exclusively apply to US citizens is the good news. The bad news is that there is no explicit and broad right to privacy in the constitution. You are protected by the fourth amendment requiring a warrant for searches and seizures, but the court has ruled that, citizen or not, if a third party like Meta willingly hands over your info, it’s fair game. L
- tiansu_yu 2y ago
  JFK asks to take a photo of you when leaving US. Only US citizens can object that based on privacy. Thats the moment you know, as a foreigner, you have no privacy in this country. And honestly, I would not expect America to care for that.
PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
> So, the less I give to US companies, the better. and all of a sudden, you're interesting.
- talldayo 2y ago
  You shouldn't be downvoted, the whole industry ought to know by now that Palantir aggregates multiple international sources of data for sale to American defense agencies. If you're legitimately afraid of America, the internet has few places of refuge.
nindalf 2y ago
> my life is dependent on the US not thinking of me as interesting Why do people engage in this sort of larping, like they're secret agents or intellectuals that may be hunted at any moment by the grey suits in western governments? We know it's not true for this person in particular because one click on their HN profile tells you their real name. I stopped there, but I'm sure there is plenty of additional info available with 3-4 more clicks. If they were really so afraid of government reprisal like this larping suggests, maybe they'd attempt to be at least a little pseudo-anonymous. The actual fact is that 99.9999999999% of us are boring and will remain boring no matter what kind of comments we write on HN. It wouldn't hurt to touch grass once in a while.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> China can decide what it wants from me- I have no plans to visit or engage with regime; however my life is dependent on the US not thinking of me as interesting If you have something of interest to Beijing and you’re doing something shameful or illegal in America, and they have evidence, they have leverage. This is human asset development 101. Most people don’t have skills or information relevant to a foreign state. But some do, and for them being mindful about not giving a foreign adversary blackmail leverage is prudent.
cryptonector 2y ago
"You have no privacy, get used to it!" -Scott McNealy Scott was not saying "you should have no privacy"; he was making a statement of fact. That was nearly two decades ago, and he was prescient and right.
babkayaga 2y ago
cleber. but china can blackmail you into working for them. you will have no recourse if it does.
- dijit 2y ago
  Blackmail me how? By giving information to the people who would have had it otherwise? Hardly a defensible position to blackmail someone from.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    Anybody that has lots of videos from you could train a deep fake realistic model and create a fake video depicting you committing a major crime. Sadly blackmail is the easier part.
    - dijit 2y ago
      I am failing to understand why I would prefer the US to have the ability to do this over China though.
      - pvaldes 2y ago
        This depends on if you can vote to change the presidents of US or China or not.
        dijit 2y ago
        I can do neither.. that's kinda my point. I have super powers on both sides, one can influence the policies and politics of my country much stronger than the other[0]. Why would I choose that side, they don't give me more rights and they don't give me any capacity to complain. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15920618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15920618

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]