6 ms·

A family member of mine has been working with research teams to try and understand this disorder. I truly think we're at the point where a cure might be feasibl

A family member of mine has been working with research teams to try and understand this disorder. I truly think we're at the point where a cure might be feasible - years ago, I remember them talking about trying to detect autism in the womb!

juliushuijnk 2y ago
The way I understand it, autism is no a disease. Both in that there is no single cause, but a collection of traits. And in that some people have autism don't view it as something that needs to be cured. Happy to be corrected by someone with more expertise. Let's hope the research will further improve our understanding and can provide help where needed.
- squigz 2y ago
  > some people have autism don't view it as something that needs to be cured. Some of us do. I'm glad for any research in this field.
- throwaway48540 2y ago
  > And in that some people have autism don't view it as something that needs to be cured. Please, don't conflate these people with the other end of the spectrum, where those suffering are absolutely unable to live any kind of life at all. I have a friend who has an autistic son. The autism makes him a 5-year old hyperactive child in a 20-year old body. He needs help.
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    Your language hints at something that I've always wondered about: > with the other end of the spectrum I had always figured that the use of "spectrum" here implied that we're all on it, and that some of us are on it in more or less problematic places. Is that not so? Are there people who are not on said spectrum?
    - cogman10 2y ago
      It's a cluster of symptoms that is quiet wide, but no not everyone is on the spectrum. For example, some individuals have high sensitivity to sensory input. On the low end of the spectrum that can mean that some cloths (like pleated cloth) can't be worn because it feels too "weird". On the other end, it can be as extreme as not being able to tolerate almost any food as you can only tolerate some textures and tastes in your mouth. Definitely with the latest DSM, a lot more people are viewed as having ASD because it widened the definition. Primarily because these symptoms tend to occur together and treatments are basically the same despite the cluster of symptoms.
    - ackfoobar 2y ago
      I'm also annoyed at the everyday usages of the word "spectrum". But here I guess you can understand "autism spectrum" as a part of the whole personality spectrum, similar to how the "visible spectrum" is a part of the EM wave spectrum.
    - mccrory 2y ago
      My understanding is that it is a large collection of traits and that a person might have no traits or possibly even 1 or 2 that are very minor and NOT be on the spectrum. Someone else might have 1 severe trait and be on the spectrum and someone else might need 5 traits to be diagnosed as on the spectrum. Don’t think of it as a continuous spectrum but more of a collection of traits that are of little or no severity to high severity where as was mentioned before, the person has little or no quality of life.
    - detourdog 2y ago
      There is definitely A school of thought that every personality trait is within in ourselves. Various factors can lead people to move along a spectrum. A whole self represents a balancing of the spectrums. Some end up with a propensity to dwell at certain points along the spectrum. This becomes one’s personality. Personality disorders happen when one is frustrated by their perceptions and a consensus reaction. This is where there are boundaries and establishing healthy boundaries is considered a way to a whole self. If someone finds themselves struggling with multiple human interactions they need to evaluate why the interactions aren’t working. The final thought is that a mature person can evaluate what went wrong and figure out on their own or with healthy communication with others. An immature person develops coping mechanisms such as avoidant and hopes for the best in the future.
  - fwip 2y ago
    > unable to live any kind of life at all. This kind of language is awfully eugenics-adjacent, and part of why autistic people resent having neurotypical people tell them how they should feel about it. If he's "not living any kind of life", it's a short hop to saying it would be better if he died, or was never born. Even if he's a "5-year old child," even children lead meaningful lives.
    - spencerchubb 2y ago
      Who said anything about eugenics or killing autistic people? The comment chain is discussing hypothetical cures for autism
      - fwip 2y ago
        I did. Saying that a person is not living a life worth living is a short, short hop from saying "well, why are we spending all these resources to keep them alive?" Further up the chain, somebody also mentioned detecting autism pre-birth. While this could lead to earlier intervention for autistic children, it also would lead to an increase in selective abortion of autistic fetuses, the same as any other condition we screen for. Which is a simple form of eugenics.
        throwaway48540 2y ago
        It's really not a short hop at all, it's a total opposite of the whole concept of "we're looking for ways to help the people with ASD".
        fwip 2y ago
        I'm not trying to attack you or say you wish ill for him. I'm trying to explain how your rhetoric (not your goals!) is philosophically aligned with people who don't want autistic people to exist.
    - throwaway48540 2y ago
      Eh, what? I'm suggesting he needs help.
- cogman10 2y ago
  It's a spectrum. Anyone that is advocating that it need not be cured is someone that is on the less severe side of the spectrum. The severe side implies significant mental handicaps. I don't think that it will ever be "cured". But I'm happy for research that helps with symptoms and improves the quality of life of those with autism.
  - JohnMakin 2y ago
    > Anyone that is advocating that it need not be cured is someone that is on the less severe side of the spectrum You are completely misunderstanding the point being made by people that push back against this kind of language. Any argument that autism spectrum disorder is something that should be "cured" is directly and significantly contributing to stigmatism surrounding the disorder and is extraordinarily insulting to many people.
    - cogman10 2y ago
      No I'm not. I certainly agree that acceptance and societal accommodation for autism is necessary. However, there is a loud set of people with ASD who will say that any sort of therapy or treatment harms people with ASD. Therapy doesn't cure ASD and I've never thought that or been told that as a parent with a child with ASD. Therapy helps a kid cope. I do understand that early autism therapies were brutal and inhumane, however, those are by and large completely gone from modern autism therapy. What's extremely insulting is believing that all forms of autism are just societal misunderstandings that need no therapeutic interventions for the individual with ASD.
      - squigz 2y ago
        > What's extremely insulting is believing that all forms of autism are just societal misunderstandings that need no therapeutic interventions for the individual with ASD. This sums it up very nicely. Thank you.
      - JohnMakin 2y ago
        > What's extremely insulting is believing that all forms of autism are just societal misunderstandings that need no therapeutic interventions for the individual with ASD. I’d very much like to hear what your definitions of “autism” are, for the classroom to see, because I’m sure it’d be illuminating. also no one is really presenting the argument you’re arguing against here, but cool. The terms and language you’re using here at best suggests you’re extremely ignorant and at worst suggests that you clearly hate or hold a lot of stigma against “autistic” people (not the preferred nomenclature) and see them as a societal ill. That’s what a lot of people are pushing back against.
dimal 2y ago
Are you sure you want that? We could lose people like like Alan Turing, Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton in the bargain. The estimates now are that autism affects about 1 in 35 people. That’s not a disorder. That’s human diversity. I realize that there are less lucky autistic people who are severely disabled. If this helps them, then good, but I don’t want to be cured. I want to be accepted. And the way our medical system works now, I don’t trust that any treatments will only be used to help those who most need it. Children who simply need acceptance and a little support will be drugged, because that will be the convenient option.
- darby_nine 2y ago
  I certainly wouldn't want to change myself, but autistic people kill themselves at rates many times that of the general population. It may not be a disorder but it's certainly capable of impacting peoples' lives negatively.
  - ndynan 2y ago
    Taking another perspective here, is suicidaility an individual problem or a social one?
    - bravura 2y ago
      Alternately, we could amplify the gene in the entire population, so that allism becomes a disorder. From DSM-2300: https://www.fysh.org/~zefram/allism/allism_intro.txt https://www.fysh.org/~zefram/allism/allism_intro.txt edit: "The underlying trait that makes people allistic is a dysfunction of the parts of the brain dealing with emotion. Allistic people lack the capacity to independently experience emotions. That is not to say they lack emotions: far from it, the allistic mind experiences emotions just like any other. The dysfunction is that the allistic person's emotional state is not determined by eir own thought processes but instead is borrowed from other people that are expressing emotion nearby. Emotional cues in tone of voice, posture, facial expression, and so on, cause the allistic person to automatically and unavoidably experience the same emotion being expressed."

juliushuijnk 2y ago

The way I understand it, autism is no a disease. Both in that there is no single cause, but a collection of traits. And in that some people have autism don't view it as something that needs to be cured. Happy to be corrected by someone with more expertise. Let's hope the research will further improve our understanding and can provide help where needed.

squigz 2y ago
> some people have autism don't view it as something that needs to be cured. Some of us do. I'm glad for any research in this field.
throwaway48540 2y ago
> And in that some people have autism don't view it as something that needs to be cured. Please, don't conflate these people with the other end of the spectrum, where those suffering are absolutely unable to live any kind of life at all. I have a friend who has an autistic son. The autism makes him a 5-year old hyperactive child in a 20-year old body. He needs help.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  Your language hints at something that I've always wondered about: > with the other end of the spectrum I had always figured that the use of "spectrum" here implied that we're all on it, and that some of us are on it in more or less problematic places. Is that not so? Are there people who are not on said spectrum?
  - cogman10 2y ago
    It's a cluster of symptoms that is quiet wide, but no not everyone is on the spectrum. For example, some individuals have high sensitivity to sensory input. On the low end of the spectrum that can mean that some cloths (like pleated cloth) can't be worn because it feels too "weird". On the other end, it can be as extreme as not being able to tolerate almost any food as you can only tolerate some textures and tastes in your mouth. Definitely with the latest DSM, a lot more people are viewed as having ASD because it widened the definition. Primarily because these symptoms tend to occur together and treatments are basically the same despite the cluster of symptoms.
  - ackfoobar 2y ago
    I'm also annoyed at the everyday usages of the word "spectrum". But here I guess you can understand "autism spectrum" as a part of the whole personality spectrum, similar to how the "visible spectrum" is a part of the EM wave spectrum.
  - mccrory 2y ago
    My understanding is that it is a large collection of traits and that a person might have no traits or possibly even 1 or 2 that are very minor and NOT be on the spectrum. Someone else might have 1 severe trait and be on the spectrum and someone else might need 5 traits to be diagnosed as on the spectrum. Don’t think of it as a continuous spectrum but more of a collection of traits that are of little or no severity to high severity where as was mentioned before, the person has little or no quality of life.
  - detourdog 2y ago
    There is definitely A school of thought that every personality trait is within in ourselves. Various factors can lead people to move along a spectrum. A whole self represents a balancing of the spectrums. Some end up with a propensity to dwell at certain points along the spectrum. This becomes one’s personality. Personality disorders happen when one is frustrated by their perceptions and a consensus reaction. This is where there are boundaries and establishing healthy boundaries is considered a way to a whole self. If someone finds themselves struggling with multiple human interactions they need to evaluate why the interactions aren’t working. The final thought is that a mature person can evaluate what went wrong and figure out on their own or with healthy communication with others. An immature person develops coping mechanisms such as avoidant and hopes for the best in the future.
- fwip 2y ago
  > unable to live any kind of life at all. This kind of language is awfully eugenics-adjacent, and part of why autistic people resent having neurotypical people tell them how they should feel about it. If he's "not living any kind of life", it's a short hop to saying it would be better if he died, or was never born. Even if he's a "5-year old child," even children lead meaningful lives.
  - spencerchubb 2y ago
    Who said anything about eugenics or killing autistic people? The comment chain is discussing hypothetical cures for autism
    - fwip 2y ago
      I did. Saying that a person is not living a life worth living is a short, short hop from saying "well, why are we spending all these resources to keep them alive?" Further up the chain, somebody also mentioned detecting autism pre-birth. While this could lead to earlier intervention for autistic children, it also would lead to an increase in selective abortion of autistic fetuses, the same as any other condition we screen for. Which is a simple form of eugenics.
      - throwaway48540 2y ago
        It's really not a short hop at all, it's a total opposite of the whole concept of "we're looking for ways to help the people with ASD".
        fwip 2y ago
        I'm not trying to attack you or say you wish ill for him. I'm trying to explain how your rhetoric (not your goals!) is philosophically aligned with people who don't want autistic people to exist.
  - throwaway48540 2y ago
    Eh, what? I'm suggesting he needs help.
cogman10 2y ago
It's a spectrum. Anyone that is advocating that it need not be cured is someone that is on the less severe side of the spectrum. The severe side implies significant mental handicaps. I don't think that it will ever be "cured". But I'm happy for research that helps with symptoms and improves the quality of life of those with autism.
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  > Anyone that is advocating that it need not be cured is someone that is on the less severe side of the spectrum You are completely misunderstanding the point being made by people that push back against this kind of language. Any argument that autism spectrum disorder is something that should be "cured" is directly and significantly contributing to stigmatism surrounding the disorder and is extraordinarily insulting to many people.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    No I'm not. I certainly agree that acceptance and societal accommodation for autism is necessary. However, there is a loud set of people with ASD who will say that any sort of therapy or treatment harms people with ASD. Therapy doesn't cure ASD and I've never thought that or been told that as a parent with a child with ASD. Therapy helps a kid cope. I do understand that early autism therapies were brutal and inhumane, however, those are by and large completely gone from modern autism therapy. What's extremely insulting is believing that all forms of autism are just societal misunderstandings that need no therapeutic interventions for the individual with ASD.
    - squigz 2y ago
      > What's extremely insulting is believing that all forms of autism are just societal misunderstandings that need no therapeutic interventions for the individual with ASD. This sums it up very nicely. Thank you.
    - JohnMakin 2y ago
      > What's extremely insulting is believing that all forms of autism are just societal misunderstandings that need no therapeutic interventions for the individual with ASD. I’d very much like to hear what your definitions of “autism” are, for the classroom to see, because I’m sure it’d be illuminating. also no one is really presenting the argument you’re arguing against here, but cool. The terms and language you’re using here at best suggests you’re extremely ignorant and at worst suggests that you clearly hate or hold a lot of stigma against “autistic” people (not the preferred nomenclature) and see them as a societal ill. That’s what a lot of people are pushing back against.

dimal 2y ago

Are you sure you want that? We could lose people like like Alan Turing, Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton in the bargain. The estimates now are that autism affects about 1 in 35 people. That’s not a disorder. That’s human diversity. I realize that there are less lucky autistic people who are severely disabled. If this helps them, then good, but I don’t want to be cured. I want to be accepted. And the way our medical system works now, I don’t trust that any treatments will only be used to help those who most need it. Children who simply need acceptance and a little support will be drugged, because that will be the convenient option.

darby_nine 2y ago
I certainly wouldn't want to change myself, but autistic people kill themselves at rates many times that of the general population. It may not be a disorder but it's certainly capable of impacting peoples' lives negatively.
- ndynan 2y ago
  Taking another perspective here, is suicidaility an individual problem or a social one?
  - bravura 2y ago
    Alternately, we could amplify the gene in the entire population, so that allism becomes a disorder. From DSM-2300: https://www.fysh.org/~zefram/allism/allism_intro.txt https://www.fysh.org/~zefram/allism/allism_intro.txt edit: "The underlying trait that makes people allistic is a dysfunction of the parts of the brain dealing with emotion. Allistic people lack the capacity to independently experience emotions. That is not to say they lack emotions: far from it, the allistic mind experiences emotions just like any other. The dysfunction is that the allistic person's emotional state is not determined by eir own thought processes but instead is borrowed from other people that are expressing emotion nearby. Emotional cues in tone of voice, posture, facial expression, and so on, cause the allistic person to automatically and unavoidably experience the same emotion being expressed."