4 ms·

Switching to work from home was, without exaggeration, one of the best decisions of my life. I did it a little less than a year before COVID made it pretty much

Switching to work from home was, without exaggeration, one of the best decisions of my life. I did it a little less than a year before COVID made it pretty much mandatory, so I probably didn't need to quit that old job. But it's okay. Now that I am not exhausted from commuting 90 minutes through hellish traffic, and spending my limited introvert energy dealing with people all day, I feel like a million bucks. I don't have to hunker down all weekend, recuperating from the last week, and preparing for the next. I don't just get back my commute time, it's like I get two extra days every week, during which I am actually capable of enjoying my life. I recently turned down a very exciting recruiting effort from an old boss, because it would have required me to commute at least two days a week. I cannot think of anything that could entice or threaten me to go back to the office at this point.

arresin 2y ago
Is it a bit isolating? It is for me, and it’s a concern, but that’s outweighed by everything you mentioned. It would be nice if there was some happy medium. But what is that?
- mrinfinitiesx 2y ago
  Hobbies. Groups. Classes, MMA/Self Defense classes, computer clubs, local singles groups. you want to not be isolated.. trust me.
- kevingadd 2y ago
  You could always take the time you save by not commuting and go outside for walks or a drink at a bar or what not. I make a point of walking to the local farmers' market a couple times a week now to spend some time around people, get a meal, etc.
- skadamat 2y ago
  I've been working remotely since 2015 essentially and here's my perspective on overcoming the feeling of isolation. In order from highest to lowest impact: - Not commuting gave me more time to do physical activities socially. Tennis with neighbors / friends in my town. A group spin class. - More time to embrace serendipitous hobbies in person with friends (or excuse to meet strangers in my town). New Nepalese restaurant with promising reviews? Randomly go with a friend on a Wednesday. New coffee shop? Try out their pourover to see if they know what they're doing! - Try working from near home. Coworking space, coffee shop, etc. Workbar offered pretty affordable part-time coworking rates last I checked? Cal calls this "work from near home" - https://calnewport.com/thinking-outside-the-home/ https://calnewport.com/thinking-outside-the-home/ - Meet a life partner who also works from home 1-2 days a week! We've enjoyed random 3 PM walks, making breakfast together, etc. - Remote work works best with results oriented work environment / culture. So feel free to do a tea tasting or go watch a movie in the middle of the day - https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/09/want-to-boost-your-productivity-hit-the-movies-during-work-expert-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/09/want-to-boost-your-productiv... - Do 1 completely casual Zoom meeting with a coworker every week, even if you don't directly work together. The 9-5 commuting lifestyle makes it easy to "bundle together" lots of habits that solve for isolation, time to wind down / prep for the day, and for many a workout routine (workout before or after work in a nearby gym). When you work from home, these are all "unbundled" so you have to re-assemble the things that matter to you yourself. More freedom but more responsibility :)
- ubertaco 2y ago
  I see this sort of question whenever this topic comes up, and I think it's interesting that there's a baseline assumption of a false dichotomy between "in-office interactions with employees of the same company" or else "isolation", as though those are the only two options (which is understandable, since American culture is pretty skewed towards defining people by their jobs -- the classic problem where people tend to answer "what do you do?" by talking about their job). I've been working hybrid or fully-remote on and off since about 2009 (with "fully-remote" being my state since about 2019). I get quite a lot more time to spend around people who are close to me -- friends, family, my community -- precisely because I'm not driving 60 miles round-trip every day anymore. Encountering this same type of dichotomy in my adult context is kinda amusing to me personally, since I encountered it often as a kid, too; I grew up homeschooled, and heard the same baseline assumption (but with "employees at the same company" swapped out for "students at the same school") presented in another frequent question: "but how do you kids ever socialize with other people?" In reality, I was often involved in daytime extracurricular activities (and weeknight/weekend ones) that had me working, volunteering, field-tripping, or just hanging out alongside multiple groups of adults and other kids on a regular basis. Living in community can happen by choice, not just by [employer || school] coercion; it just requires that you make that choice.
  - arresin 2y ago
    There is something that happens though when you’re in the same space day after day. You feel a deeper level of connection and bonding. Like being at school and seeing your classmates everyday. It defies logic.
    - eska 2y ago
      Then why do most bonds formed in school not last for most people? Why do most co-workers not turn into lasting bonds when changing companies?
    - ronhav3 2y ago
      And yet, when a coworker leaves, he quickly dissapears from our conciousness. These "bonds" are an illusion.
- karaterobot 2y ago
  One thing I tried at first was to organize a shared workspace for friends, where we'd get an office somewhere near our homes, rather than downtown, and come in to the same shared space so we could hang out and shoot the shit. It was very hard to settle on the right location that wouldn't just create a new commuting challenge for everyone, and office space (and parking) is not cheap. I eventually found an okay spot, but COVID quarantining put an end to that. I imagine office space is cheaper now, but I have not had a strong urge to try again. I do agree that it's isolating. But only during work hours. After work, and on the weekends, I see people a lot more than I did when I was in the office. Overall, I feel like I get more social time than before, but it's with people and in situations I choose. And I also get a lot more breaks in between, which I like.
mrinfinitiesx 2y ago
Lucky you. IT / Tech sector is at 6% unemployment and the worst its been since the dotcom bubble burst. Remote work would be awesome. Operations, even Dev-Ops and Business Development level is hard to find for remote, and the market is pretty bad. Haven't seen or noticed what its like for the return to office culture, but, I'm not driving from one computer spending my gas to sit down in front of another computer. Preposterous. I turned the consulting just to keep my schedule; it's ..an interesting change of pace. I think people are lucky to be having remote work at this moment.
- prewett 2y ago
  6% unemployment is a pretty normal rate for an economy. Historically the US is usually above 5% [1], and the current rate is 4.2%, so 6% is only slightly above the national rate. I don't doubt that you've had trouble finding work, but I don't think the unemployment rate is the reason, or even the symptom. Particularly since it sounds like you are looking for remote only, and the ratio of seekers to jobs (a sort of "unemployment" measure, given that people may settle for in-office jobs if they can't find a remote one) for remote software may be very different than a 6% rate. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/ https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
leptons 2y ago
> commuting 90 minutes through hellish traffic I used to commute 90 minutes each way to and from work, back in the 1990's. One day I added up all that time I was spending sitting in traffic and it totaled an entire month of my life just sitting in traffic. My year was essentially 11 months long, not 12. I told my boss "In two weeks I'm not coming in to the office anymore". He said I could work from home, back when 56k modems were the fastest available. The company went out of business about 6 months later, so maybe he knew about that or maybe not, but those 6 months were amazing. I found another job that was a 15 minute bus ride away, and went back to an office but it was a far better situation. Oh, I also gave up driving completely, the city actually towed away my shitty car because it hadn't been driven in 6 months. Good riddance! I didn't drive for about 20 years, until I met my wife who had a car. I got a license so I could drive her around. I still don't own my own car, and now I've been working at home for almost 5 years. I'm never going back to an office if I can avoid it at all.
- kamaal 2y ago
  >>I added up all that time I was spending sitting in traffic and it totaled an entire month of my life just sitting in traffic. My year was essentially 11 months long, not 12. Even with people using WFH to drop/pick up kids from school, even with afternoon naps, WFH turns out to be a more productive option just for this reason alone- commute/transit. Commute time, and overall office shenanigans pretending to be productive or busy when you are clearly not(often just sitting in meetings saying nothing) are the top reasons why most people prefer WFH.
unsui 2y ago
Completely agree. Am luckily in a postition where my org is 100% remote (for the time being), and I am cherishing it for as long as it lasts. Many (most?) HN posts that discuss WFH seem to be from the POV of the employer/management, with topics such as: * ensuring employee vigilance * reducing employee wasted cycles (with the corner case provided often being workers with multiple side gigs) etc... (side note: seems like those comments are coming from temporarily-embarrased CEOs-in-waiting) OTOH, looks like reviews of WFH from the IC level are often pushed aside in HN, and it may show a skewed appreciation for the true popularity and benefits of WFH. While it may not be for everybody, for a great many of us, WFH is the best thing since sliced bread. And to have that removed for X reasons (whether legitimate or not) will incur a significant pain for those of us who have aligned to (what I consider) an optimal productivity lifestyle. Let that pain be heard, rather than pushed aside as invalid.
- david38 2y ago
  As an engineering manager, I found it quite easy to see the contributions of remote engineers and had no trouble evaluating what was going on. I wonder about the structure of some companies
soramimo 2y ago
I bike to work every day (40 min one way) and drop off my kid at school on the way to work. Ironically my commute is about the best part of my day (and I learned during the pandemic that it's hard for me to establish that kind of habit without a forcing function). I totally get that folks don't want to back to the office, but my advice is that, if you have to, try to turn it into something enjoyable (noting that I specifically moved to an area that's bike friendly).
- kkfx 2y ago
  Personally I do not enjoy any geographical constraint, and anyway I do not enjoy biking when it rain, when it's too hot/humid-cold etc. So I have ZERO reasons trying to "enjoy" something imposed just to keep up the urban model needed by big capital... WFH allow spread living, allowing a more human society of SMEs, the only who die in this models are the giants, and that's will (not would) be good riddance.
fnord77 2y ago
WFH ruined me. I hate it.

arresin 2y ago

Is it a bit isolating? It is for me, and it’s a concern, but that’s outweighed by everything you mentioned. It would be nice if there was some happy medium. But what is that?

mrinfinitiesx 2y ago
Hobbies. Groups. Classes, MMA/Self Defense classes, computer clubs, local singles groups. you want to not be isolated.. trust me.
kevingadd 2y ago
You could always take the time you save by not commuting and go outside for walks or a drink at a bar or what not. I make a point of walking to the local farmers' market a couple times a week now to spend some time around people, get a meal, etc.
skadamat 2y ago
I've been working remotely since 2015 essentially and here's my perspective on overcoming the feeling of isolation. In order from highest to lowest impact: - Not commuting gave me more time to do physical activities socially. Tennis with neighbors / friends in my town. A group spin class. - More time to embrace serendipitous hobbies in person with friends (or excuse to meet strangers in my town). New Nepalese restaurant with promising reviews? Randomly go with a friend on a Wednesday. New coffee shop? Try out their pourover to see if they know what they're doing! - Try working from near home. Coworking space, coffee shop, etc. Workbar offered pretty affordable part-time coworking rates last I checked? Cal calls this "work from near home" - https://calnewport.com/thinking-outside-the-home/ https://calnewport.com/thinking-outside-the-home/ - Meet a life partner who also works from home 1-2 days a week! We've enjoyed random 3 PM walks, making breakfast together, etc. - Remote work works best with results oriented work environment / culture. So feel free to do a tea tasting or go watch a movie in the middle of the day - https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/09/want-to-boost-your-productivity-hit-the-movies-during-work-expert-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/09/want-to-boost-your-productiv... - Do 1 completely casual Zoom meeting with a coworker every week, even if you don't directly work together. The 9-5 commuting lifestyle makes it easy to "bundle together" lots of habits that solve for isolation, time to wind down / prep for the day, and for many a workout routine (workout before or after work in a nearby gym). When you work from home, these are all "unbundled" so you have to re-assemble the things that matter to you yourself. More freedom but more responsibility :)
ubertaco 2y ago
I see this sort of question whenever this topic comes up, and I think it's interesting that there's a baseline assumption of a false dichotomy between "in-office interactions with employees of the same company" or else "isolation", as though those are the only two options (which is understandable, since American culture is pretty skewed towards defining people by their jobs -- the classic problem where people tend to answer "what do you do?" by talking about their job). I've been working hybrid or fully-remote on and off since about 2009 (with "fully-remote" being my state since about 2019). I get quite a lot more time to spend around people who are close to me -- friends, family, my community -- precisely because I'm not driving 60 miles round-trip every day anymore. Encountering this same type of dichotomy in my adult context is kinda amusing to me personally, since I encountered it often as a kid, too; I grew up homeschooled, and heard the same baseline assumption (but with "employees at the same company" swapped out for "students at the same school") presented in another frequent question: "but how do you kids ever socialize with other people?" In reality, I was often involved in daytime extracurricular activities (and weeknight/weekend ones) that had me working, volunteering, field-tripping, or just hanging out alongside multiple groups of adults and other kids on a regular basis. Living in community can happen by choice, not just by [employer || school] coercion; it just requires that you make that choice.
- arresin 2y ago
  There is something that happens though when you’re in the same space day after day. You feel a deeper level of connection and bonding. Like being at school and seeing your classmates everyday. It defies logic.
  - eska 2y ago
    Then why do most bonds formed in school not last for most people? Why do most co-workers not turn into lasting bonds when changing companies?
  - ronhav3 2y ago
    And yet, when a coworker leaves, he quickly dissapears from our conciousness. These "bonds" are an illusion.
karaterobot 2y ago
One thing I tried at first was to organize a shared workspace for friends, where we'd get an office somewhere near our homes, rather than downtown, and come in to the same shared space so we could hang out and shoot the shit. It was very hard to settle on the right location that wouldn't just create a new commuting challenge for everyone, and office space (and parking) is not cheap. I eventually found an okay spot, but COVID quarantining put an end to that. I imagine office space is cheaper now, but I have not had a strong urge to try again. I do agree that it's isolating. But only during work hours. After work, and on the weekends, I see people a lot more than I did when I was in the office. Overall, I feel like I get more social time than before, but it's with people and in situations I choose. And I also get a lot more breaks in between, which I like.

mrinfinitiesx 2y ago

Lucky you. IT / Tech sector is at 6% unemployment and the worst its been since the dotcom bubble burst. Remote work would be awesome. Operations, even Dev-Ops and Business Development level is hard to find for remote, and the market is pretty bad. Haven't seen or noticed what its like for the return to office culture, but, I'm not driving from one computer spending my gas to sit down in front of another computer. Preposterous. I turned the consulting just to keep my schedule; it's ..an interesting change of pace. I think people are lucky to be having remote work at this moment.

prewett 2y ago
6% unemployment is a pretty normal rate for an economy. Historically the US is usually above 5% [1], and the current rate is 4.2%, so 6% is only slightly above the national rate. I don't doubt that you've had trouble finding work, but I don't think the unemployment rate is the reason, or even the symptom. Particularly since it sounds like you are looking for remote only, and the ratio of seekers to jobs (a sort of "unemployment" measure, given that people may settle for in-office jobs if they can't find a remote one) for remote software may be very different than a 6% rate. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/ https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

leptons 2y ago

> commuting 90 minutes through hellish traffic I used to commute 90 minutes each way to and from work, back in the 1990's. One day I added up all that time I was spending sitting in traffic and it totaled an entire month of my life just sitting in traffic. My year was essentially 11 months long, not 12. I told my boss "In two weeks I'm not coming in to the office anymore". He said I could work from home, back when 56k modems were the fastest available. The company went out of business about 6 months later, so maybe he knew about that or maybe not, but those 6 months were amazing. I found another job that was a 15 minute bus ride away, and went back to an office but it was a far better situation. Oh, I also gave up driving completely, the city actually towed away my shitty car because it hadn't been driven in 6 months. Good riddance! I didn't drive for about 20 years, until I met my wife who had a car. I got a license so I could drive her around. I still don't own my own car, and now I've been working at home for almost 5 years. I'm never going back to an office if I can avoid it at all.

kamaal 2y ago
>>I added up all that time I was spending sitting in traffic and it totaled an entire month of my life just sitting in traffic. My year was essentially 11 months long, not 12. Even with people using WFH to drop/pick up kids from school, even with afternoon naps, WFH turns out to be a more productive option just for this reason alone- commute/transit. Commute time, and overall office shenanigans pretending to be productive or busy when you are clearly not(often just sitting in meetings saying nothing) are the top reasons why most people prefer WFH.

unsui 2y ago

Completely agree. Am luckily in a postition where my org is 100% remote (for the time being), and I am cherishing it for as long as it lasts. Many (most?) HN posts that discuss WFH seem to be from the POV of the employer/management, with topics such as: * ensuring employee vigilance * reducing employee wasted cycles (with the corner case provided often being workers with multiple side gigs) etc... (side note: seems like those comments are coming from temporarily-embarrased CEOs-in-waiting) OTOH, looks like reviews of WFH from the IC level are often pushed aside in HN, and it may show a skewed appreciation for the true popularity and benefits of WFH. While it may not be for everybody, for a great many of us, WFH is the best thing since sliced bread. And to have that removed for X reasons (whether legitimate or not) will incur a significant pain for those of us who have aligned to (what I consider) an optimal productivity lifestyle. Let that pain be heard, rather than pushed aside as invalid.

david38 2y ago
As an engineering manager, I found it quite easy to see the contributions of remote engineers and had no trouble evaluating what was going on. I wonder about the structure of some companies

soramimo 2y ago

I bike to work every day (40 min one way) and drop off my kid at school on the way to work. Ironically my commute is about the best part of my day (and I learned during the pandemic that it's hard for me to establish that kind of habit without a forcing function). I totally get that folks don't want to back to the office, but my advice is that, if you have to, try to turn it into something enjoyable (noting that I specifically moved to an area that's bike friendly).

kkfx 2y ago
Personally I do not enjoy any geographical constraint, and anyway I do not enjoy biking when it rain, when it's too hot/humid-cold etc. So I have ZERO reasons trying to "enjoy" something imposed just to keep up the urban model needed by big capital... WFH allow spread living, allowing a more human society of SMEs, the only who die in this models are the giants, and that's will (not would) be good riddance.

fnord77 2y ago

WFH ruined me. I hate it.