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Same here: I work on speech for a big company and working from the office is terrible. I had to squat the restroom 3 times yesterday so I could work (talk to my

Same here: I work on speech for a big company and working from the office is terrible. I had to squat the restroom 3 times yesterday so I could work (talk to my phone!) At home I am so much more productive and zero commute. Because of the badging policy in place, I end up scheduling non productive days at the office (doing email, reading other docs, meetings which are always with remote folks anyway but at least they see a genuine meeting room or phone booth behind my pretty face, so I guess that counts? ;)

esafak 2y ago
> Because of the badging policy in place, I end up scheduling non productive days at the office An added benefit of this is that it makes working from home look more productive, if they're keeping score :)
- highcountess 2y ago
  I suggest you dispel of this notion that the players in this game have any sense of rationality or logic about this topic. There are massive (many trillion) commercial real estate interests at play here that totally trump all productivity, health, and even the holiest of holy climate change benefits. I don’t think people quite understand the real order of priorities and issues related to remote working. The big corporations are under both pulling and pushing pressures from the government and interests that control it to “put butts in seats” in big commercial real estate. They don’t care about anything else and they are throwing around money and fear to whip everyone into shape. Yes, there will be some pressure pushing back and dread by corporations stuck between the ol’ rock of competition and the government-favor hard place, but it is unlikely to win out at the corporate level unless some real independent competition rises that is putting on massive pressure by not having commercial real estate capital expenditures. A small office in a city can easily cost $1M per year, sure there are tax benefits, but they’re not benefits if you are competing with someone that does not have those expenses at all or far fewer, even after paying for team meetups that also fund a family vacation.
  - tehnub 2y ago
    Would you mind explaining what these commercial real estate interests are? How does a company or the government benefit from having "butts in seats", all else e.g. productivity, equal?
    - Rastonbury 2y ago
      One is near retail and footfall, coffeeshops, restaurants etc. But it's the government that cares about that and I don't think there are many place where gov has meaningfully intervened in private company policy I don't see how real estate companies can influence companies/tenants, they don't hold much power here since everyone is shrinking or cancelling their leases Where I work, RTO is partially Finance driven, bean counters just don't like seeing seats they paid for go empty
      - devsda 2y ago
        > Where I work, RTO is partially Finance driven, bean counters just don't like seeing seats they paid for go empty Same here. Leaders up the chain get a "use it or leave it" mail for office space and suddenly everyone is asked to keep those seats warm by coming in x days a week.
        whstl 2y ago
        Hmm, that could explain what's happening, but this doesn't sound "Finance driven" to me. What those "bean counters" are doing is actually quite rational. If leadership wants people to RTO instead of just giving up seats, then it's 100% on them.
        Rastonbury 2y ago
        If you buy 2 machines but only use them at 50% capacity, the only you might as well just buy one machine. Problem is office space doesn't work like that when the entire team is in on 'office' days to collaborate, you need the all seats. If you right size down to 60% seats (3 days office, 2 home) and have people rotate, you lose the 3 in-office collaborative days because everyday it's likely 30% of people are dialling in from home. You save 40% rent but it's closer to full remote in terms of collaboration.

esafak 2y ago

> Because of the badging policy in place, I end up scheduling non productive days at the office An added benefit of this is that it makes working from home look more productive, if they're keeping score :)

highcountess 2y ago
I suggest you dispel of this notion that the players in this game have any sense of rationality or logic about this topic. There are massive (many trillion) commercial real estate interests at play here that totally trump all productivity, health, and even the holiest of holy climate change benefits. I don’t think people quite understand the real order of priorities and issues related to remote working. The big corporations are under both pulling and pushing pressures from the government and interests that control it to “put butts in seats” in big commercial real estate. They don’t care about anything else and they are throwing around money and fear to whip everyone into shape. Yes, there will be some pressure pushing back and dread by corporations stuck between the ol’ rock of competition and the government-favor hard place, but it is unlikely to win out at the corporate level unless some real independent competition rises that is putting on massive pressure by not having commercial real estate capital expenditures. A small office in a city can easily cost $1M per year, sure there are tax benefits, but they’re not benefits if you are competing with someone that does not have those expenses at all or far fewer, even after paying for team meetups that also fund a family vacation.
- tehnub 2y ago
  Would you mind explaining what these commercial real estate interests are? How does a company or the government benefit from having "butts in seats", all else e.g. productivity, equal?
  - Rastonbury 2y ago
    One is near retail and footfall, coffeeshops, restaurants etc. But it's the government that cares about that and I don't think there are many place where gov has meaningfully intervened in private company policy I don't see how real estate companies can influence companies/tenants, they don't hold much power here since everyone is shrinking or cancelling their leases Where I work, RTO is partially Finance driven, bean counters just don't like seeing seats they paid for go empty
    - devsda 2y ago
      > Where I work, RTO is partially Finance driven, bean counters just don't like seeing seats they paid for go empty Same here. Leaders up the chain get a "use it or leave it" mail for office space and suddenly everyone is asked to keep those seats warm by coming in x days a week.
      - whstl 2y ago
        Hmm, that could explain what's happening, but this doesn't sound "Finance driven" to me. What those "bean counters" are doing is actually quite rational. If leadership wants people to RTO instead of just giving up seats, then it's 100% on them.
        Rastonbury 2y ago
        If you buy 2 machines but only use them at 50% capacity, the only you might as well just buy one machine. Problem is office space doesn't work like that when the entire team is in on 'office' days to collaborate, you need the all seats. If you right size down to 60% seats (3 days office, 2 home) and have people rotate, you lose the 3 in-office collaborative days because everyday it's likely 30% of people are dialling in from home. You save 40% rent but it's closer to full remote in terms of collaboration.