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The problem with Excel is that it tries to do almost everything in one software tool: front-end (editing, presentation), analysis, semantic modeling, data stora

The problem with Excel is that it tries to do almost everything in one software tool: front-end (editing, presentation), analysis, semantic modeling, data storage/database. Almost all reasonable engineers see that there is something wrong with such an approach. But almost all everyday computer users think that this is the way computing has to be. Sometimes I wonder why even I voluntarily open it for certain tasks - anyway, despite all the criticism, Excel has reached the Lindy[1] threshold for me and is here to stay. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect

ravetcofx 2y ago
Except that it's proprietary and will eventually be un-maintained and stop working. But spreadsheets, in general, fall under the Lindy effect and open source software will continue it for centuries to come.
- Closi 2y ago
  Although excel spreadsheets have had more longevity than lots of other formats…
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  You might have had a point in the days of .xls, but Excel by default uses .xlsx now which is just XML packaged inside a .zip archive if I recall. And yes, Excel still fully supports .xls too. I fear whatever format LibreOffice uses will die first, case in point I don't even remember what it's called even though I should as a computer nerd.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    MS-OOXML is barely an open format. Have you tried implementing it? ECMA-376 part 1 is over 5000 pages, and there are four parts to it! (Part 1 contains an extra bit about SpreadsheetML, but by that point we were two zips deep. I turned back ere I got lost.) The OpenDocument formats, meanwhile, are older, simpler and better than their MS-OOXML equivalents. (The ODF spec is 1041 pages altogether – 215 pages of that are the spreadsheet formula language.) LibreOffice's implementation is a little janky, sure, but I can edit OpenDocument files by hand. Try doing that to a MS-OOXML file. (Good luck.)
- Yossarrian22 2y ago
  Its easier for me to imagine a world in which AI makes spreadsheets invisible to the modern person than it is to imagine a world in which Excel isn't the de facto spreadsheet.
shermantanktop 2y ago
My problem with excel is that I love it too much, even though I know that I maybe shouldn’t. It hits some perfect point between structured and unstructured data that is conducive to just filling in cells and seeing what happens. I say “I shouldn’t” because the off-ramp from a working solution to a proper productized code-based approach can be very painful.
- sitkack 2y ago
  Spreadsheet are wonderful and powerful, Excel is ass. Love the concept, hate the implementation.
  - lazide 2y ago
    Unfortunately, it’s also industry standard ass.
philipwhiuk 2y ago
The biggest problem is that the development cost for a solution 'a bit better' than a complex Excel spreadsheet is often stratospheric. Many tech start-ups are 'replace this thing people do in Excel with a purpose built tool'
- HKH2 2y ago
  Sometimes people need to be saved from themselves. E.g. spreadsheets can have mistakes very quickly when people treat them as databases and start copying columns between spreadsheets assuming that the primary keys (e.g. in one column) are identical while they happily add rows and move rows around.
  - StableAlkyne 2y ago
    To be fair, there are no good, accessible database tools around for your average non programmer user. Access tried to be this a decade ago, until MS started to let it die. So now, your only option is basically Excel. There's a reason it's the main thing people gravitate into.
    - wuming2 2y ago
      Claris FileMaker was that tool. Easy to understand and provided clear separation between data and the rest. Bundled with Mac OS so everyone used it. It is now an expensive enclave.
    - pjerem 2y ago
      > Access tried to be this a decade ago three decades ago :)
    - albrewer 2y ago
      For really simple databases, I've had limited success getting people to use a UI in front of SQLite: https://sqlitebrowser.org/ https://sqlitebrowser.org/
faresahmed 2y ago
Excel can also send mail through VBA scripts, thus satisfying Zawinski's Law[1]. [1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html

ravetcofx 2y ago

Except that it's proprietary and will eventually be un-maintained and stop working. But spreadsheets, in general, fall under the Lindy effect and open source software will continue it for centuries to come.

Closi 2y ago
Although excel spreadsheets have had more longevity than lots of other formats…
Dalewyn 2y ago
You might have had a point in the days of .xls, but Excel by default uses .xlsx now which is just XML packaged inside a .zip archive if I recall. And yes, Excel still fully supports .xls too. I fear whatever format LibreOffice uses will die first, case in point I don't even remember what it's called even though I should as a computer nerd.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  MS-OOXML is barely an open format. Have you tried implementing it? ECMA-376 part 1 is over 5000 pages, and there are four parts to it! (Part 1 contains an extra bit about SpreadsheetML, but by that point we were two zips deep. I turned back ere I got lost.) The OpenDocument formats, meanwhile, are older, simpler and better than their MS-OOXML equivalents. (The ODF spec is 1041 pages altogether – 215 pages of that are the spreadsheet formula language.) LibreOffice's implementation is a little janky, sure, but I can edit OpenDocument files by hand. Try doing that to a MS-OOXML file. (Good luck.)
Yossarrian22 2y ago
Its easier for me to imagine a world in which AI makes spreadsheets invisible to the modern person than it is to imagine a world in which Excel isn't the de facto spreadsheet.

shermantanktop 2y ago

My problem with excel is that I love it too much, even though I know that I maybe shouldn’t. It hits some perfect point between structured and unstructured data that is conducive to just filling in cells and seeing what happens. I say “I shouldn’t” because the off-ramp from a working solution to a proper productized code-based approach can be very painful.

sitkack 2y ago
Spreadsheet are wonderful and powerful, Excel is ass. Love the concept, hate the implementation.
- lazide 2y ago
  Unfortunately, it’s also industry standard ass.

philipwhiuk 2y ago

The biggest problem is that the development cost for a solution 'a bit better' than a complex Excel spreadsheet is often stratospheric. Many tech start-ups are 'replace this thing people do in Excel with a purpose built tool'

HKH2 2y ago
Sometimes people need to be saved from themselves. E.g. spreadsheets can have mistakes very quickly when people treat them as databases and start copying columns between spreadsheets assuming that the primary keys (e.g. in one column) are identical while they happily add rows and move rows around.
- StableAlkyne 2y ago
  To be fair, there are no good, accessible database tools around for your average non programmer user. Access tried to be this a decade ago, until MS started to let it die. So now, your only option is basically Excel. There's a reason it's the main thing people gravitate into.
  - wuming2 2y ago
    Claris FileMaker was that tool. Easy to understand and provided clear separation between data and the rest. Bundled with Mac OS so everyone used it. It is now an expensive enclave.
  - pjerem 2y ago
    > Access tried to be this a decade ago three decades ago :)
  - albrewer 2y ago
    For really simple databases, I've had limited success getting people to use a UI in front of SQLite: https://sqlitebrowser.org/ https://sqlitebrowser.org/

faresahmed 2y ago

Excel can also send mail through VBA scripts, thus satisfying Zawinski's Law[1]. [1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zawinskis-Law.html