4 ms·

these days I ask chatgpt for help to install arch instead of using the docs which are designed as a gate keeping mechanism to discourage the uninitiated by maki

these days I ask chatgpt for help to install arch instead of using the docs which are designed as a gate keeping mechanism to discourage the uninitiated by making them feel stupid. chatgpt just tells you how to do and turns out its really not that hard.

scandox 2y ago
I really think that's unfair. The install docs are quite long but they try to give people options. It's not gate keeping to provide a lot of detail.
- semiinfinitely 2y ago
  I actually agree that the Arch docs are absolutely excellent in their level of detail, precision and helpfulness. I also think its possible for them to simultaneously be a gate keeping mechanism and stand by what I said
  - dingnuts 2y ago
    well if you stand by them, do you plan to present actual evidence of the alleged conspiracy or are you just making these statements to troll?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - swasheck 2y ago
      isn’t gatekeeping inherently subjective? it’s going to be hard to present objective evidence to a subjective expression of opinion.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - Jtsummers 2y ago
        Gatekeeping is an active effort to keep others out of something (out of a field, away from information, etc.). Where is the active effort to keep people out of Arch when the documentation is made available for free?
        kelnos 2y ago
        I think you're talking past the person you're replying to. Not sure why you use the word "active", as it's unnecessary. Gatekeeping is just erecting barriers of whatever sort in an effort to keep people out. Making install documentation that is very very detailed to the point that some people will be turned off by it and go away could very much be considered gatekeeping. Even if that documentation is objectively good documentation. Obviously we can't know the motives of the people who wrote the documentation. But it's fair to look at the docs and believe that the authors are engaging in gatekeeping. That belief might be wrong, but there's no evidence either way. Unless the authors have come out and said something about this topic, of course. And even then, it depends on if you believe what they've said. It's subjective. (I personally have no dog in this race. I don't use or particularly care about Arch; Debian suits me just fine. My main experience with Arch is positive, though: their wiki is amazing, and when I search for answers for various questions about Linux and Linux desktop software, the Arch wiki comes up very often, and is nearly always helpful.)
        vetinari 2y ago
        > Making install documentation that is very very detailed to the point that some people will be turned off by it and go away could very much be considered gatekeeping. In my times, we called such people lazy. No gatekeeping needed.
- mlindner 2y ago
  The install wiki is full of outdated information that causes people to install outdated and old methods of doing things. So I wouldn't advise people to use it, other than the fact there's no other option.
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    I find that hard to believe. I've always found the Arch Wiki to be excellent and very up to date. Do you have any examples of articles which document outdated ways to do things? If you have found incorrect information, please edit the wiki to improve it.
- imtringued 2y ago
  I haven't had that feeling. In fact, installing Arch Linux is easy. The hardest part is the bad partition editor UX and that you need to have an understanding of how UEFI booting works. There is also the problem of GRUB being a terrible bootloader, but that is another story for another day.
calepayson 2y ago
[This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68z11VAYMS8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68z11VAYMS8) was a godsend when I first got started and I recommend it for anyone installing arch.

scandox 2y ago

I really think that's unfair. The install docs are quite long but they try to give people options. It's not gate keeping to provide a lot of detail.

semiinfinitely 2y ago
I actually agree that the Arch docs are absolutely excellent in their level of detail, precision and helpfulness. I also think its possible for them to simultaneously be a gate keeping mechanism and stand by what I said
- dingnuts 2y ago
  well if you stand by them, do you plan to present actual evidence of the alleged conspiracy or are you just making these statements to troll?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - swasheck 2y ago
    isn’t gatekeeping inherently subjective? it’s going to be hard to present objective evidence to a subjective expression of opinion.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Jtsummers 2y ago
      Gatekeeping is an active effort to keep others out of something (out of a field, away from information, etc.). Where is the active effort to keep people out of Arch when the documentation is made available for free?
      - kelnos 2y ago
        I think you're talking past the person you're replying to. Not sure why you use the word "active", as it's unnecessary. Gatekeeping is just erecting barriers of whatever sort in an effort to keep people out. Making install documentation that is very very detailed to the point that some people will be turned off by it and go away could very much be considered gatekeeping. Even if that documentation is objectively good documentation. Obviously we can't know the motives of the people who wrote the documentation. But it's fair to look at the docs and believe that the authors are engaging in gatekeeping. That belief might be wrong, but there's no evidence either way. Unless the authors have come out and said something about this topic, of course. And even then, it depends on if you believe what they've said. It's subjective. (I personally have no dog in this race. I don't use or particularly care about Arch; Debian suits me just fine. My main experience with Arch is positive, though: their wiki is amazing, and when I search for answers for various questions about Linux and Linux desktop software, the Arch wiki comes up very often, and is nearly always helpful.)
        vetinari 2y ago
        > Making install documentation that is very very detailed to the point that some people will be turned off by it and go away could very much be considered gatekeeping. In my times, we called such people lazy. No gatekeeping needed.
mlindner 2y ago
The install wiki is full of outdated information that causes people to install outdated and old methods of doing things. So I wouldn't advise people to use it, other than the fact there's no other option.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  I find that hard to believe. I've always found the Arch Wiki to be excellent and very up to date. Do you have any examples of articles which document outdated ways to do things? If you have found incorrect information, please edit the wiki to improve it.
imtringued 2y ago
I haven't had that feeling. In fact, installing Arch Linux is easy. The hardest part is the bad partition editor UX and that you need to have an understanding of how UEFI booting works. There is also the problem of GRUB being a terrible bootloader, but that is another story for another day.

calepayson 2y ago

[This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68z11VAYMS8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68z11VAYMS8) was a godsend when I first got started and I recommend it for anyone installing arch.