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Technically is that even possible ? (I know nothing about chip manf) I can see the US can probably force Apple to do that. Nvidia may be a tough sell unless

by jmclnx 2y ago

Technically is that even possible ? (I know nothing about chip manf) I can see the US can probably force Apple to do that. Nvidia may be a tough sell unless the US puts an embargo on Nvidia. We know that won't happen.

colmmacc 2y ago
I'm skeptical that the US government would go so far, but why the difference between Apple and Nvidia? You can walk between their headquarters in California, and they are both incorporated in Delaware.
- jmclnx 2y ago
  Apple is a US Based Company. Isn't Nvidia based in the UK ? Plus with the AI push, many US companies will be against forcing a change to Nvidia's status. edit: OK, maybe I got arm and Nvidia mixed up :)
novia 2y ago
I read the book Chip War. The US Government has been the chip industry's faithful customer. They are also allowed to step in when they have national security concerns. The pandemic chip shortage brought our reliance on overseas producers into sharp focus. They're trying to patch that now. TSMC is top class though, so it's difficult to convince people to use anything else.
- amy-petrik-214 2y ago
  national security, exactly. if intel makes everr'one's chips like the old days then intel, that old friend the US government helped shield from bankruptcy... .. maybe intel can slip in a little extra circuit here or there, won't be used for anything NORMALLY but maybe if things got bad maybe hypothetically the NSA could have a teensy little backdoor added on. conversely the assumption is this is what already occurs in chinese chips, which makes the US govt want even harder to centralize all chip making under the NSA's home turf
caust1c 2y ago
It seems feasible technically. The machines and process is just about effectively the same regardless of the chip manufacturer, since they all use the same ASML EUV technology to produce the wafers. From a regulation perspective though, it's sus from my point of view but definitely not unheard of in other industries of course. Reading the article, it sounds like the government agent is pressuring the shareholders of those firms to in turn pressure nVidia and Apple to use those fabs. And it reads like the official didn't mention Intel by name, so par for the course for avoiding scrutiny using the "invisible hand" (/s) of the market.
- re-thc 2y ago
  > since they all use the same ASML EUV technology to produce the wafers If only that's all there is to it. This is sort of the media's simplified view for the general public. And well what some people want to talk about. There are lots of vendors involved with a lot of unique technologies in the mix. If it was so simple everyone would just buy these machines and copy it. > The machines and process is just about effectively the same It's clearly different. Apple experienced it first hand many times. Same as Qualcomm. Try ask TSMC and Samsung to manufacture the same design over roughly the same generation and there have been vastly different results.
gpm 2y ago
> Technically is that even possible ? (I know nothing about chip manf) The article basically answers this question > However, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang said during the Goldman Sachs conference that the GPU maker could shift its fab if needed. “In the event that we have to shift from one fab to another, we have the ability to do it. We won’t be able to get the same level of performance or cost, but we will be able to provide the supply.”

by jmclnx 2y ago

colmmacc 2y ago

I'm skeptical that the US government would go so far, but why the difference between Apple and Nvidia? You can walk between their headquarters in California, and they are both incorporated in Delaware.

jmclnx 2y ago
Apple is a US Based Company. Isn't Nvidia based in the UK ? Plus with the AI push, many US companies will be against forcing a change to Nvidia's status. edit: OK, maybe I got arm and Nvidia mixed up :)

novia 2y ago

I read the book Chip War. The US Government has been the chip industry's faithful customer. They are also allowed to step in when they have national security concerns. The pandemic chip shortage brought our reliance on overseas producers into sharp focus. They're trying to patch that now. TSMC is top class though, so it's difficult to convince people to use anything else.

amy-petrik-214 2y ago
national security, exactly. if intel makes everr'one's chips like the old days then intel, that old friend the US government helped shield from bankruptcy... .. maybe intel can slip in a little extra circuit here or there, won't be used for anything NORMALLY but maybe if things got bad maybe hypothetically the NSA could have a teensy little backdoor added on. conversely the assumption is this is what already occurs in chinese chips, which makes the US govt want even harder to centralize all chip making under the NSA's home turf

caust1c 2y ago

It seems feasible technically. The machines and process is just about effectively the same regardless of the chip manufacturer, since they all use the same ASML EUV technology to produce the wafers. From a regulation perspective though, it's sus from my point of view but definitely not unheard of in other industries of course. Reading the article, it sounds like the government agent is pressuring the shareholders of those firms to in turn pressure nVidia and Apple to use those fabs. And it reads like the official didn't mention Intel by name, so par for the course for avoiding scrutiny using the "invisible hand" (/s) of the market.

re-thc 2y ago
> since they all use the same ASML EUV technology to produce the wafers If only that's all there is to it. This is sort of the media's simplified view for the general public. And well what some people want to talk about. There are lots of vendors involved with a lot of unique technologies in the mix. If it was so simple everyone would just buy these machines and copy it. > The machines and process is just about effectively the same It's clearly different. Apple experienced it first hand many times. Same as Qualcomm. Try ask TSMC and Samsung to manufacture the same design over roughly the same generation and there have been vastly different results.

gpm 2y ago

> Technically is that even possible ? (I know nothing about chip manf) The article basically answers this question > However, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang said during the Goldman Sachs conference that the GPU maker could shift its fab if needed. “In the event that we have to shift from one fab to another, we have the ability to do it. We won’t be able to get the same level of performance or cost, but we will be able to provide the supply.”