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Tesla is still very much a bubble. What about Tesla implies they should be worth that much more than, say, Toyota…?

jillesvangurp 2y ago
Valuation is based on future, not past performance. Toyota is looking a bit stale and weak lately. They are loosing market share. Amongst others to BYD and Tesla in a market that Tesla single handedly created. And Toyota's portion of that is so pathetic it's barely worth talking about. It's gotten so bad that Toyota is currently actually outsourcing EVs to BYD at the same time that company is grabbing market share from them. Not a great look if you have to ask your fastest growing competitor to please build a product for you. Tesla is of course taking a few big bets that may or may not pay off. Many people are rightfully somewhat skeptical about all that but it is a bit disingenuous to portray them as just a car company given their growing number of "definitely not a car" type products and services. E.g. battery storage is bringing in quite a bit of revenue now for them and is one of the things that is rapidly growing. And of course the whole robots, AI, and FSD angle has lots of potential. Regardless of whether you believe Tesla can do that or not. This article is about OpenAI who is getting quite stellar valuations in that area. Tesla is of course part of that market. Toyota very much isn't. In short, Tesla might fail or they might succeed. In the same way Toyota might recover or they might not. To be honest, both companies have issues. But I have more confidence in Tesla than Toyota. Toyota seems a company without ambition and vision. Tesla can't be accused of that. Toyota's vision is to do what all their competitors are doing right now but in ten years. Tesla's vision is to do in ten years what nobody is doing right now. Again, you might not believe in any of that. But you might be wrong. That's the gamble you make in the stock market with either company. And the share price is just a reflection of what people buying shares right now believe.
refurb 2y ago
[flagged]
jtriangle 2y ago
Massive amounts of anti-fossil fuel powered car legislation being passed, or being talked about, and Tesla being the clear market leader in the electric vehicle space.
- treyd 2y ago
  If you look at share price sure. But if only they could actually build their cars to meet demand and not have them constantly fall apart.
  - buzzerbetrayed 2y ago
    Hey look, Hyperbole. Fun!
  - fallingknife 2y ago
    I hear endlessly how bad Teslas are from anonymous internet people who don't own them and the exact opposite from everyone I know IRL who does.
    - mattmaroon 2y ago
      My girlfriend owns a model Y and I could write a long list of reasons why they are poorly built and a nightmare to get serviced.
      - tayo42 2y ago
        To be fair your anonymous and that comment is on the internet
        gigatree 2y ago
        not anyonymous, that’s Matt Maroon
        mattmaroon 2y ago
        Ha, I have had my real name as my screen name here for 17 years. Can’t be any less anonymous on the internet than that.
        tayo42 2y ago
        I should have investigated the profile more. Maybe he's faking it? Hah
buzzerbetrayed 2y ago
I’m not saying the should be valued higher. But it is at least notable that a Toyota has been the best selling car every year for the last 20 or so, until last year when it was the Model Y. Meanwhile Toyota has been caught unsure of if they should build gas, electric, or hydrogen cars. Fortunately, as a fan of Toyota’s cars, it seems like they’ve figured out a good strategy forward. But for every Toyota there is a BlackBerry, IBM, Reebok, or Blockbuster who doesn’t figure out how to adapt to a changing market in time.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I think for Toyota's main market the hybrid model still makes very much sense. EV is still a huge premium. Nice if you live outside the city and can charge your car with your own solar panels. Too clumsy to deal with in the city with the scarce public charge points. And Toyota is a budget to mid range brand. For high end (the customers where the premium doesn't matter) they have lexus.
- hibikir 2y ago
  You are using a pretty deceptive number when looking at the highest selling car. What is the biggest seller for Toyota? the RAV4, which helpfully counts as "not a car".
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    In the US maybe? Here in Europe I'm sure it's the corolla
- MrDarcy 2y ago
  I largely agree except with IBM. They may not be fashionable but they have 195B market cap and the stock price is up over 25 years.
- zeroonetwothree 2y ago
  Best selling vehicles of 2023: 1. Ford F series 2. Chevy Silverado 3. Ram Pickup 4. Toyota RAV-4 5. Tesla Model Y

Valuation is based on future, not past performance. Toyota is looking a bit stale and weak lately. They are loosing market share. Amongst others to BYD and Tesla in a market that Tesla single handedly created. And Toyota's portion of that is so pathetic it's barely worth talking about. It's gotten so bad that Toyota is currently actually outsourcing EVs to BYD at the same time that company is grabbing market share from them. Not a great look if you have to ask your fastest growing competitor to please build a product for you. Tesla is of course taking a few big bets that may or may not pay off. Many people are rightfully somewhat skeptical about all that but it is a bit disingenuous to portray them as just a car company given their growing number of "definitely not a car" type products and services. E.g. battery storage is bringing in quite a bit of revenue now for them and is one of the things that is rapidly growing. And of course the whole robots, AI, and FSD angle has lots of potential. Regardless of whether you believe Tesla can do that or not. This article is about OpenAI who is getting quite stellar valuations in that area. Tesla is of course part of that market. Toyota very much isn't. In short, Tesla might fail or they might succeed. In the same way Toyota might recover or they might not. To be honest, both companies have issues. But I have more confidence in Tesla than Toyota. Toyota seems a company without ambition and vision. Tesla can't be accused of that. Toyota's vision is to do what all their competitors are doing right now but in ten years. Tesla's vision is to do in ten years what nobody is doing right now. Again, you might not believe in any of that. But you might be wrong. That's the gamble you make in the stock market with either company. And the share price is just a reflection of what people buying shares right now believe.

refurb 2y ago

[flagged]

jtriangle 2y ago

Massive amounts of anti-fossil fuel powered car legislation being passed, or being talked about, and Tesla being the clear market leader in the electric vehicle space.

treyd 2y ago
If you look at share price sure. But if only they could actually build their cars to meet demand and not have them constantly fall apart.
- buzzerbetrayed 2y ago
  Hey look, Hyperbole. Fun!
- fallingknife 2y ago
  I hear endlessly how bad Teslas are from anonymous internet people who don't own them and the exact opposite from everyone I know IRL who does.
  - mattmaroon 2y ago
    My girlfriend owns a model Y and I could write a long list of reasons why they are poorly built and a nightmare to get serviced.
    - tayo42 2y ago
      To be fair your anonymous and that comment is on the internet
      - gigatree 2y ago
        not anyonymous, that’s Matt Maroon
        mattmaroon 2y ago
        Ha, I have had my real name as my screen name here for 17 years. Can’t be any less anonymous on the internet than that.
        tayo42 2y ago
        I should have investigated the profile more. Maybe he's faking it? Hah

buzzerbetrayed 2y ago

I’m not saying the should be valued higher. But it is at least notable that a Toyota has been the best selling car every year for the last 20 or so, until last year when it was the Model Y. Meanwhile Toyota has been caught unsure of if they should build gas, electric, or hydrogen cars. Fortunately, as a fan of Toyota’s cars, it seems like they’ve figured out a good strategy forward. But for every Toyota there is a BlackBerry, IBM, Reebok, or Blockbuster who doesn’t figure out how to adapt to a changing market in time.

wkat4242 2y ago
I think for Toyota's main market the hybrid model still makes very much sense. EV is still a huge premium. Nice if you live outside the city and can charge your car with your own solar panels. Too clumsy to deal with in the city with the scarce public charge points. And Toyota is a budget to mid range brand. For high end (the customers where the premium doesn't matter) they have lexus.
hibikir 2y ago
You are using a pretty deceptive number when looking at the highest selling car. What is the biggest seller for Toyota? the RAV4, which helpfully counts as "not a car".
- wkat4242 2y ago
  In the US maybe? Here in Europe I'm sure it's the corolla
MrDarcy 2y ago
I largely agree except with IBM. They may not be fashionable but they have 195B market cap and the stock price is up over 25 years.
zeroonetwothree 2y ago
Best selling vehicles of 2023: 1. Ford F series 2. Chevy Silverado 3. Ram Pickup 4. Toyota RAV-4 5. Tesla Model Y