3 ms·

But the OP is right about the parasocial aspect. OF content and other such platforms is about the personalization aspect. Sure, there's some kinks/fetishes too.

But the OP is right about the parasocial aspect. OF content and other such platforms is about the personalization aspect. Sure, there's some kinks/fetishes too.. but it is primarily about engagement. In some ways, it's just an explicit, subscription based, social media platform where it feels like you're being treated uniquely... But most times you are not.

itishappy 2y ago
How is that particularly different from, say, concerts? The social aspects are what drives value.
- SecretDreams 2y ago
  It's the feeling of being more personalized. I see what you're saying about concerts, but it is not the same. Nobody is going to the concert thinking the musician is "talking to them" or making content specifically "for them".
  - itishappy 2y ago
    I think there's significant overlap in both. Most OF content is not personalized. It might be consumed solo, but it's produced for a wider distribution. On the concert side, I feel there's a similar situation where you can pay a little to get the same experience as everyone else, or you can pay a lot to get VIP passes and a personalized experience. Also, both situations are strongly dependent on the size of the fanbase. You're not going to get a personalized show from Taylor Swift or Bella Thorne, but smaller musicians and OF performers target that vibe exclusively.
  - tomhallett 2y ago
    Tom Petty said we were such a great crowd that we should all get on sail boat and go to Tahiti. Felt pretty personal to me. /s
  - HappMacDonald 2y ago
    I'unno every concert I've been to has included the band/singer replacing a placename randomly from the lyrics of one of their songs with the name of whatever town the concert was being held in. shrug
- almatabata 2y ago
  [dead]
- flyingpenguin 2y ago
  I don't know about you, but I also find concerts very strange and off putting. Like, is "Denver" really a special crowd? I'm pretty sure you are doing a very staged reppeded performance but making us think its specially for us. I like things without crowd interaction, like musicals/plays, because there is no dystopian parasocial aspect to it. I am only there because the live is different than the recording.
  - vunderba 2y ago
    I'm 100% with you. When people say that they go to these types of events and say things like they're "feeling the energy", I just can't understand at all. All I'm feeling is the massive amount of BTUs being emitted by humans packed in close proximity... However, give me a good piano recital with elevated seating to be able to see the pianist hands, and I'll be there in a flash.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      How is a solo classical pianist's concert any less staged, rehearsed or repeated performance than any other concert, other than a (not so) vague sense of elitism? Unless you're close, you're not catching the nuance of the pianist's hands any more than guitar licks from a guitar frontman. Indeed, many modern pianists are following in the footsteps of rock concerts and having live video camera work to capture these details for people not in the front 10 rows. All this does is give vibes of "Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television" (https://theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-televisi-1819565469/ https://theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesn...).
  - grvbck 2y ago
    > Like, is "Denver" really a special crowd? As someone who frequently goes to concerts, I can absolutely testify that the audience can vary a lot between cities. You can usually tell if the band/artist is genuinly enjoying their performance or if they are doing the bare rehearsed minimum. If you read/watch interviews with touring musicians, all have stories about how "Tokyo was crazy", "London was boring" etc – even though the set list was the exact same every evening.
- pfannkuchen 2y ago
  This comparison is backwards. Listening to music performed in person by other humans is the natural way of things, like actually having sex with another human. Recorded music is much more like pornography.
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    Following that logic: ‘Reading words etched into a stone or inscribed on papyrus by other human hands is the natural way of things, like actually having sex with another human. Reading words created via machines is much more like pornography.’
    - itishappy 2y ago
      Words etched in stone? Bah! Words were created for speach! > For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise. > - Socrates https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=3439 https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=3439
      - hooverd 2y ago
        He's not wrong- the average bookcel doesn't have the same sort of oral recall that storytellers of past had. Not that it's a bad thing.
  - itishappy 2y ago
    That's a fascinating perspective. I wonder if there was any pushback when recording was first introduced? A quick search shows... of course there was! https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/06/06/the-record-effect https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/06/06/the-record-eff... https://archive.is/PDR04 https://archive.is/PDR04
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  People go to concerts to socialize with the crowd, not with the artist.
  - emj 2y ago
    Maybe a parasocial with the crowd then. Small venues are better for social life but bigger venues create more revenue. So we get less social life. People build connections whatever they do, we have had phone sex for a long time. Now you need a camera and take some clothes off to do it. It is obvious that the people who manage to earn a lot streaming are mass producing content. There are ones who strive for a social connection and the creators who give that are never going to be big earners. Same as small venues.
makeitdouble 2y ago
> it feels like you're being treated uniquely... But most times you are not. That's just any customer business. When you go buy a house it feels like the agent is really looking at your personal circumstances and trying hard to be your friend. When you go cut your hair the staff will remember your name and ask about your day. Your dentist will keep track of your operations, personalize your care and make sure you're in trust and as comfortable as possible. There's really nothing special about having people you pay be friendly with you.
- mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
  The first time my dental hygienist asked a small talk question referencing something I said last visit, I was impressed by their memory/vaguely flattered . The second time it happened I was pretty sure they're just writing notes about what to say in my record. Especially when the new hygienist did the same trick :)
  - sharemywin 2y ago
    I worked in the pizza business before there are some regular customers that you pretty much would call friends. similar to work friends.
    - chgs 2y ago
      Any pub landlord will have regulars
  - I_AM_A_SMURF 2y ago
    I thought that too about my hair stylist... until I randomly met them at a restaurant and they mentioned very specific details about my life.
  - tharkun__ 2y ago
    I hate it when a dental hygienist small talks. I'm there to get my teeth done not to talk. If I talk, they can't do their job. Personally I have no need for small talk. So I'm just doing it to please them. Now, the waiter at our office lunch restaurant that we went to like every 2 or 3 weeks knowing exactly what each of us would order and even the ones that alternated between 2 or 3 dishes he'd ask "oh is it the butter chicken or the chicken tikka today?" makes sense and is impressive and appreciated. He didn't do any non essential small talk instead of doing his job either. On the other hand you have restaurants where you're a table for two and the guy doesn't remember who had which dish when serving in a basically empty restaurant.
hooverd 2y ago
Funny enough, I follow an OnlyFans creator on Xitter, and they've been complaining that OnlyFans was cracking down on kink/fetish content. I guess OF only wants parasocial slop on their platform!
- HappMacDonald 2y ago
  Well given that OF tried to ban all porn a year or two ago (obviously quickly backpedaling while dodging projectile-spam of rotten fruit) I'm certainly not surprised.
ifyoutakestock 2y ago
[dead]
cma 2y ago
How is that different than the music industry: > Taylor has always cultivated a parasocial relationship with her fans, and her success is in no small part due to this cultivation. Here are just a few examples besides just her deeply personal and largely autobiographical lyrics: > 1) Publishing her personal journal pages in the four different versions of the Lover album. > 2) Inviting fans to her house for Secret Sessions to listen to her albums before release dates. > 3) This direct quote from the Eras Tour in Tampa: "I'm really loving this tour. It's become my entire personality and I've always loved putting on shows, always loved that connection... Knowing you have felt the same way... I need you guys very much for my well-being." > 4) The Fearless TV announcement. "This was the musical era in which so many inside jokes were created between us, so many hugs exchanged and hands touched, so many unbreakable bonds formed, so before I say anything else, let me just say that it was a real honor to get to be a teenager alongside you..." > 5) Leaving secret messages in the liner notes of her physical CDs and the eventual TS culture of Easter Eggs. https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/13zlbi9/parasocial_relationships_and_taylors_role_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/13zlbi9/paraso...

itishappy 2y ago

How is that particularly different from, say, concerts? The social aspects are what drives value.

SecretDreams 2y ago
It's the feeling of being more personalized. I see what you're saying about concerts, but it is not the same. Nobody is going to the concert thinking the musician is "talking to them" or making content specifically "for them".
- itishappy 2y ago
  I think there's significant overlap in both. Most OF content is not personalized. It might be consumed solo, but it's produced for a wider distribution. On the concert side, I feel there's a similar situation where you can pay a little to get the same experience as everyone else, or you can pay a lot to get VIP passes and a personalized experience. Also, both situations are strongly dependent on the size of the fanbase. You're not going to get a personalized show from Taylor Swift or Bella Thorne, but smaller musicians and OF performers target that vibe exclusively.
- tomhallett 2y ago
  Tom Petty said we were such a great crowd that we should all get on sail boat and go to Tahiti. Felt pretty personal to me. /s
- HappMacDonald 2y ago
  I'unno every concert I've been to has included the band/singer replacing a placename randomly from the lyrics of one of their songs with the name of whatever town the concert was being held in. shrug
almatabata 2y ago
[dead]
flyingpenguin 2y ago
I don't know about you, but I also find concerts very strange and off putting. Like, is "Denver" really a special crowd? I'm pretty sure you are doing a very staged reppeded performance but making us think its specially for us. I like things without crowd interaction, like musicals/plays, because there is no dystopian parasocial aspect to it. I am only there because the live is different than the recording.
- vunderba 2y ago
  I'm 100% with you. When people say that they go to these types of events and say things like they're "feeling the energy", I just can't understand at all. All I'm feeling is the massive amount of BTUs being emitted by humans packed in close proximity... However, give me a good piano recital with elevated seating to be able to see the pianist hands, and I'll be there in a flash.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    How is a solo classical pianist's concert any less staged, rehearsed or repeated performance than any other concert, other than a (not so) vague sense of elitism? Unless you're close, you're not catching the nuance of the pianist's hands any more than guitar licks from a guitar frontman. Indeed, many modern pianists are following in the footsteps of rock concerts and having live video camera work to capture these details for people not in the front 10 rows. All this does is give vibes of "Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television" (https://theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-televisi-1819565469/ https://theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesn...).
- grvbck 2y ago
  > Like, is "Denver" really a special crowd? As someone who frequently goes to concerts, I can absolutely testify that the audience can vary a lot between cities. You can usually tell if the band/artist is genuinly enjoying their performance or if they are doing the bare rehearsed minimum. If you read/watch interviews with touring musicians, all have stories about how "Tokyo was crazy", "London was boring" etc – even though the set list was the exact same every evening.
pfannkuchen 2y ago
This comparison is backwards. Listening to music performed in person by other humans is the natural way of things, like actually having sex with another human. Recorded music is much more like pornography.
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  Following that logic: ‘Reading words etched into a stone or inscribed on papyrus by other human hands is the natural way of things, like actually having sex with another human. Reading words created via machines is much more like pornography.’
  - itishappy 2y ago
    Words etched in stone? Bah! Words were created for speach! > For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise. > - Socrates https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=3439 https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=3439
    - hooverd 2y ago
      He's not wrong- the average bookcel doesn't have the same sort of oral recall that storytellers of past had. Not that it's a bad thing.
- itishappy 2y ago
  That's a fascinating perspective. I wonder if there was any pushback when recording was first introduced? A quick search shows... of course there was! https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/06/06/the-record-effect https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/06/06/the-record-eff... https://archive.is/PDR04 https://archive.is/PDR04
marcosdumay 2y ago
People go to concerts to socialize with the crowd, not with the artist.
- emj 2y ago
  Maybe a parasocial with the crowd then. Small venues are better for social life but bigger venues create more revenue. So we get less social life. People build connections whatever they do, we have had phone sex for a long time. Now you need a camera and take some clothes off to do it. It is obvious that the people who manage to earn a lot streaming are mass producing content. There are ones who strive for a social connection and the creators who give that are never going to be big earners. Same as small venues.

makeitdouble 2y ago

> it feels like you're being treated uniquely... But most times you are not. That's just any customer business. When you go buy a house it feels like the agent is really looking at your personal circumstances and trying hard to be your friend. When you go cut your hair the staff will remember your name and ask about your day. Your dentist will keep track of your operations, personalize your care and make sure you're in trust and as comfortable as possible. There's really nothing special about having people you pay be friendly with you.

mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
The first time my dental hygienist asked a small talk question referencing something I said last visit, I was impressed by their memory/vaguely flattered . The second time it happened I was pretty sure they're just writing notes about what to say in my record. Especially when the new hygienist did the same trick :)
- sharemywin 2y ago
  I worked in the pizza business before there are some regular customers that you pretty much would call friends. similar to work friends.
  - chgs 2y ago
    Any pub landlord will have regulars
- I_AM_A_SMURF 2y ago
  I thought that too about my hair stylist... until I randomly met them at a restaurant and they mentioned very specific details about my life.
- tharkun__ 2y ago
  I hate it when a dental hygienist small talks. I'm there to get my teeth done not to talk. If I talk, they can't do their job. Personally I have no need for small talk. So I'm just doing it to please them. Now, the waiter at our office lunch restaurant that we went to like every 2 or 3 weeks knowing exactly what each of us would order and even the ones that alternated between 2 or 3 dishes he'd ask "oh is it the butter chicken or the chicken tikka today?" makes sense and is impressive and appreciated. He didn't do any non essential small talk instead of doing his job either. On the other hand you have restaurants where you're a table for two and the guy doesn't remember who had which dish when serving in a basically empty restaurant.

hooverd 2y ago

Funny enough, I follow an OnlyFans creator on Xitter, and they've been complaining that OnlyFans was cracking down on kink/fetish content. I guess OF only wants parasocial slop on their platform!

HappMacDonald 2y ago
Well given that OF tried to ban all porn a year or two ago (obviously quickly backpedaling while dodging projectile-spam of rotten fruit) I'm certainly not surprised.

ifyoutakestock 2y ago

[dead]

cma 2y ago

How is that different than the music industry: > Taylor has always cultivated a parasocial relationship with her fans, and her success is in no small part due to this cultivation. Here are just a few examples besides just her deeply personal and largely autobiographical lyrics: > 1) Publishing her personal journal pages in the four different versions of the Lover album. > 2) Inviting fans to her house for Secret Sessions to listen to her albums before release dates. > 3) This direct quote from the Eras Tour in Tampa: "I'm really loving this tour. It's become my entire personality and I've always loved putting on shows, always loved that connection... Knowing you have felt the same way... I need you guys very much for my well-being." > 4) The Fearless TV announcement. "This was the musical era in which so many inside jokes were created between us, so many hugs exchanged and hands touched, so many unbreakable bonds formed, so before I say anything else, let me just say that it was a real honor to get to be a teenager alongside you..." > 5) Leaving secret messages in the liner notes of her physical CDs and the eventual TS culture of Easter Eggs. https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/13zlbi9/parasocial_relationships_and_taylors_role_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/comments/13zlbi9/paraso...