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> If you sell your body, most societies will punish you. Thats [sic] fine, […] How is that 'fine'? I would like to see a future where someone doing sex work t
by Freak_NL 2y ago
> If you sell your body, most societies will punish you. Thats [sic] fine, […]
How is that 'fine'?
I would like to see a future where someone doing sex work to make ends meet (or even as a freely chosen profession!) is not ostracised for it. Sex is part of society whether you want it or not, and so is paying for sexual acts.
- lynx23 2y agoThats also fine. You can "like to see" everything you want. Question is, what the rest of society believes. Oldest bussiness and all that, I am actually on your side. But that doesn't mean I can ignore what overall society feels and thinks. Besides, there is a difference between consuming payed sex, and having a relationship with a (ex) sex worker. The difference is quite huge.
- bad_user 2y agoI would like to see a future where people shouldn't have to prostitute themselves to make ends meet. Some cultural norms are outdated, but prostitution is still degrading and dangerous for those practicing it, especially for the women; who may not be doing so willingly, prostitution being the main incentive for human trafficking. And the online medium doesn't change that by much. Some people may be willing to pay for sex, some people are willing to pay for many other things or activities that should be or are illegal.
- Freak_NL 2y agoSex work will never go away. The only way forward is to make sure it can be done safely and legally. Consider the sex workers who deal with mentally or physically disabled adults. Most people have sexual urges, and those who are unable to participate in society in the usual way of addressing their urges with a romantic partner or a one-night stand still have them. There are a good number of very professional sex workers out there who can provide these people with sex (often with specific expertise for the relevant handicaps) and generally significantly improve the wellbeing. Are those sex workers doing something they shouldn't be doing?
- medo-bear 2y ago> Are those sex workers doing something they shouldn't be doing? You are asking a binary question for which there isn't a binary answer. Better to ask are those sex workers doing something they will get a pat on their backs for from other members of society? In a way a builder, chef, firefighter, and even a prison guard would.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoPerhaps the lack of a "pat on the back" is society's fault.
- swagasaurus-rex 2y agoWhy? it’s so easy to make content
- paulryanrogers 2y agoWell folks appreciate different things and to different degrees. Some are born with natural talents and others work hard for it. Regardless, folks generally get at least some respect for doing the work to produce things others appreciate. Stigmatizing OF work seems unfair when so much praise is heaped on creators and workers of all other kinds.
- medo-bear 2y agoIt is not unfair if it clashes with cultural values. It is like coming to HN, going against the majority sentiment, and expecting likes
- medo-bear 2y agoFor what? For opening your legs and getting paid for it? Without criminals and sleezy execs as clients prostitution would cease to exist. The edge cases mentioned before are tiny
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- mgaunard 2y agoIt's not "to make ends meet". OF work allows people with no skills to get income in line with the top 10th or even 1st percentile of the population. Would you rather be flipping burgers all day for 30k or would you rather take a few nudes every week and make 300k?
- beaglesss 2y agoI wouldn't be surprised to find out an absurd fraction of those 300k is just straight up money laundering. Who is actually gonna be able to verify the value of someone allegedly showing their tits to a whale at 3am? The fact this all passed through traditional financial networks with a clean and reportable earnings report at the end is just pure gold. OF is like the wet dream of a drug dealer or whoever else with a baby momma and some kind of scam/fraud/counterfeit operation.
- djtango 2y agoI agree with what you say but we know enough about youtubers and mobile gaming to safely assume that the numbers in this space are wild. I remember on Pewdiepie's first ever charity YouTube stream he was printing thousands per second via donos
- toyg 2y agoWho would have thought that all those big numbers in TV deals were actually underestimated by the billions. The general public is even more desperate/gullible than we ever considered possible. And OF and YT are just the beginning.
- TeMPOraL 2y agoBut you can't compare with top performers in a power law / winner-takes-all setting. Comparing random youtubers or OF-ers to PewDiePie is like comparing the guy owning a fruit stand down the street to Jeff Bezos. Owns business, owns business; the same thing, right?
- 2y ago
- achenet 2y ago> prostitution is still degrading and dangerous for those practicing it, especially for the women; degrading: no. I've met prostitutes who very much like their work and find it empowering dangerous: ...yes, because it's illegal and they don't have access to proper legal protection.
- huuhee3 2y agoI would like to see a future where people shouldn't have to do any work they don't enjoy to make ends meet. As far as I can see, working fast food (and many other badly paid service jobs) is not much different from prostitution, except in that there is no social stigma attached, and you earn much less.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago> but prostitution is still degrading Why? Especially compared to e.g. advertising/marketing? At least in the former case, all parties to the transaction are there voluntarily, for an honest, mutually beneficial exchange of value.
- beaglesss 2y agoSociety accepting sex work is the worst thing that can happen to sex workers. They can have their cake and eat it right now -- not terribly illegal in the west but shunned which limits competition. When it becomes fine, it will be worth no more than someone coming to mow your lawn, and probably less than that.
- ithkuil 2y agoWouldn't that put at least some pressure into pursuing other options (like mowing somebody's lawn)?
- ithkuil 2y agoWouldn't that be an incentive towards other career paths (such as mowing lawns)? EDIT: brace for the lawn mowing cartels led by ex human trafficking gangs. On a more serious note, there is so much criminality involved in that field precisely because it's illegal and lucrative. You remove that and you remove a lot of abuse.
- ptsneves 2y agoWow i never thought of that! I love this reasoning (no sarcasm intended!). Based on supply/demand, the lack of social acceptance leads to low supply which in turn makes sure the price matches the moral cost. I honestly wished it was not (considered) degrading and just as acceptable as any hospitality service, although in my culture it is indeed immoral to take or provide sex services. Even so if it still is degrading indeed there should be a matching cost, but damn economics is a tricky one.
- lennxa 2y agonot treating sex workers like crap doesnt mean they'll make lesser. one must also consider the monetary equivalents of the mental health of the worker. and the demand will increase by a lot too.
- mgaunard 2y agoThere are many countries in the west where prostitution is legal and taxed like any other activity. It seems the main complain is that it brings the prices down due to competition from eastern europe.
- amelius 2y agoIt's fine because otherwise we'd evolve into the social structure of Bonobo monkeys, where every problem is solved with sex.
- sheepdestroyer 2y agoNot following why that, if true, would make the current situation better ("fine").
- prmoustache 2y ago> where every problem is solved with sex. Would it be a problem?
- sulandor 2y agoobviously better than fighting
- zakki 2y agoYes. Till this day Bonobo has no invention. Do you like this kind of society?
- ath3nd 2y agoOne could argue that it's better to have no inventions than inventing the following: - the Spanish inquisition - jihad/crusades - guns - PFAS - agent orange - iron maiden (not the band, the torture device) - the atomic bomb
- prmoustache 2y agoWell it depends what kind of society brings the most happiness out of our lives. I can't say, I have never lived as a Bonobo.
- Der_Einzige 2y agoThis is exactly what everyone means by “return to monke”
- medo-bear 2y agoI would certainly not like to live in a future where selling your body to make ends meet is considered normal. To me it is already concerning that normalization of prostitution is happening to some extent in mass media. Sex is in all (?) human cultures viewed as most intimate and private expression of civilized love. It is also how we teach our kids about sex. Pornography and prostitution serve only our primal desires which goes against all this. Does it really surprise you that society will shun people that partake in these things? To me it is obvious as day.
- kwhitefoot 2y agoWe all have to sell ourselves in order to live. I'm sure that there are plenty of people working at jobs that they thoroughly dislike. Shouldn't we concentrate on making sure that people really have a choice rather than on discriminating against people who make a choice?
- medo-bear 2y agoDiscrimination against people making the wrong choices is natural. Discriination against people repenting for the wrong choices is wrong
- smolder 2y ago> Sex is part of society whether you want it or not, and so is paying for sexual acts. Yes, and this seems to be a discussion of whether people want it or not. I don't think paid sex acts ruin the world. Some people probably need it in place of real intimacy, for their own mental health. I still think it's generally scummy and unproductive. Then again, I think all sorts of businesses can be described that way. Snake oil has been killing it for as long as commerce has been around. Another example: if you go around gutting productive companies to line your own pockets, e.g. buying & dismantling competitors to stop competition, I see that as a greater moral failing than baiting lonely people with sex appeal. It's common that people forget or fail to understand that business is a way to cooperatively shape life into something desirable, and instead see it as a way to win at others expense.
- k33jf33l2 2y ago[flagged]
- mihaic 2y agoIf you want to take purely moral grounds, there's nothing to make prostitution or Onlyfans "wrong", except if done with exploitation. At the same time, it contributes to the demographic crysis, and if you care about results, you have to put pressure against the lifestyles that are nudging people away from starting a family and having kids. Drug dealers are also part of society, yet we still frown upon them.
- I-M-S 2y agoAn individual has no obligation to respect a societal order that doesn't respect them back.
- mihaic 2y agoWhy do you say that? Most individuals that aren't respected by society had that respect, yet lost it through some action (like dealing drugs). I think we're seeing things in different frameworks, and I'm considering the end result more important than the principles here. If you don't accept that some seemingly individual decisions have a cumulated effect on society long-term, and that shaming is the only mechanism to make changes here, there really is no discourse possible.
- matrix87 2y ago> I would like to see a future where someone doing sex work to make ends meet It's better to have a future where people don't have to do SW to make ends meet A future where more people get forced into sex work because of economic reasons is not desirable. Consider the diseases, conflict with cultural norms, potential for rape and abuse Sex should be freely given. "Free laborers" aren't freely giving their labor, they're forced to for economic reasons