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Is there an explanation for why the USPS needs custom-designed vehicles built by a defense contractor when every other last mile delivery company just buys ordi

Is there an explanation for why the USPS needs custom-designed vehicles built by a defense contractor when every other last mile delivery company just buys ordinary vans and trucks?

drfuchs 2y ago
UPS trucks are custom designed for UPS; they used to have a nice documentary about it. New Amazon trucks around where I live are clearly custom (and also not very pretty, if you ask me).
- robohoe 2y ago
  New Amazon trucks are built by Rivian.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    I saw a Rivian mobile service van for the first time about two weeks ago. I was behind it in traffic. It’s exactly the same design as Amazon, just different paint. All I could think of was “they repainted an Amazon van“. I know Rivian makes them all. But seeing so many Amazon vans has changed who “owns“ the design in my mind.
- pishpash 2y ago
  None have huge windows like this. Are the tasks that different?
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Perhaps the next generation of UPS trucks will have large windows like the new USPS trucks. If it seems to be a useful feature, others will adopt it eventually.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      It's very clearly a useful feature for seeing children while driving round residential areas, where they might be playing in the street. Since it costs extra, Amazon will only adopt if if they're forced, either by regulation or significant social pressure.
petejansson 2y ago
Last mile delivery companies don't handle the volume of non-package traffic that the USPS does. At that scale, tailoring can really pay off in productivity.
- queuebert 2y ago
  Are you saying that the USPS delivering a handful of advertisements in addition to the odd package has greater demands than UPS/Fedex/Amazon delivering the bulk of the large packages in our society?
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Not necessarily greater (though I'd think so, yes), but certainly different.
  - philwelch 2y ago
    It’s definitely way more than a handful; spam makes up the vast majority of my USPS service by quantity and probably the largest share by volume.
enriquec 2y ago
seriously - what a waste of money. Guaranteed the maintenance is rife with corrupt arrangements. Also guaranteed that almost any American car manufacturer (Rivian, Tesla, Ford, etc.) would have done a far better job for far less. Did they even pretend to have a fair bidding system? Oshkosh Defense? Seriously?! What a joke.
- Kye 2y ago
  How is this any different from the Grumman Long Life Vehicle it replaces? It worked well last time.
  - pishpash 2y ago
    The only thing that comes to mind is maybe defense co. has experience building with indestructible materials, and the specs are for lasting 50 years, which when amortized is optimal for an entity like the government that can dump huge amounts of capital ($40B) at once that a private sector CEO can never do.
    - MBCook 2y ago
      It is, to some degree, a jobs program. Whoever wins is guaranteed a lot of work for a long time. So contractors really want it. I don't think Tesla or Rivian are used to working with government contracts. I'm not sure how much someone like Ford does either outside of mild customization. But defense contractors spend all their time working with the government, building to their specifications, handling the requirements and compliance/etc. They're simply very very well equipped to work on such a contract. They'd also be very used to making something for decades because that's what the government wants. Does Ford have a vehicle they make that's nearly unchanged for 30 years? I'd assume even the transit vans have changed a lot in that timeframe.
    - philwelch 2y ago
      I think it’s mostly that defense contractors are specialized in selling to the government, which entails jumping through regulatory compliance hoops and placating elected officials by distributing the supply chain across as many congressional districts as possible.
wannacboatmovie 2y ago
Because they don't deliver to mailboxes on the curb opposite the driver in a LHD vehicle?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
aeturnum 2y ago
Name one last mile delivery company that doesn't have a purpose built van supplier? Amazon is getting Rivian to build theirs (after trying buying off the shelf)[1]. UPS uses a ford chassis but custom body work[2]. Fedex is perhaps the closest as they work with many manufacturers, but they have their vehicles custom built for them[3]. [1] https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/transportation/everything-you-need-to-know-about-amazons-electric-delivery-vans-from-rivian https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/transportation/everything-y... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Trucks/comments/ppo5tu/what_model_are_the_ups_trucks_i_heard_that_they/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Trucks/comments/ppo5tu/what_model_a... [3] https://trucksauthority.com/who-makes-fedex-trucks/ https://trucksauthority.com/who-makes-fedex-trucks/
- sofixa 2y ago
  French, German, Dutch, Swiss, British, Spanish etc etc etc post office, alongside DHL/FedEx/TNT/etc. in each of those?
  - aeturnum 2y ago
    I do not have detailed knowledge about the various national postal services you mention, but I suspect you also don't? The German post uses custom EVs[1]. If you really want to disagree please find a source that says a service uses off the shelf vehicles. [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103326_germans-to-build-own-unique-electric-vans-for-postal-service https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103326_germans-to-buil...
    - jdietrich 2y ago
      Royal Mail use a wide range of off-the-shelf vehicles. They don't seem to have any particular brand loyalty. https://www.flickr.com/photos/76716069@N03/galleries/72157651385457941/with/14450073721 https://www.flickr.com/photos/76716069@N03/galleries/7215765...
      - aeturnum 2y ago
        I don't mean to say that delivery companies must only use custom-built vehicles - but that basically all services have some custom vehicles. As an example the Royal Mail does seem to use a lot of production vehicles, but they also are working with Arrival for what look like custom made delivery vans. You can compare the Royal Mail vehicle made by Arrival[1] and their generic landing page for their van sales[2]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/DesignPorn/comments/iskdah/royal_mails_new_electric_delivery_van_is_just_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DesignPorn/comments/iskdah/royal_ma... [2] https://arrival.com/topic/van https://arrival.com/topic/van
voytec 2y ago
They are testing "ordinary" vans as well. They purchased 6 Canoo vans[0] for testing and announced plan to buy 9000 Ford E-Transit vehicles[1] earlier this year. [0] https://www.press.canoo.com/press-release/canoo-reaches-agreement-with-us-postal-service-for-purchase-of-electric-vehicles https://www.press.canoo.com/press-release/canoo-reaches-agre... [1] https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2024/01/22/usps-unveils-e-transit-parcel-delivery-vans-and-charging-infrast.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2024...
bombcar 2y ago
They want to be able to buy the exact same vehicles for the next 40 or 50 years.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  How is that a good idea?
eesmith 2y ago
UPS doesn't just buy ordinary vans and trucks. 'UPS Orders 10,000 Electric Vans from EV Maker You Probably Haven't Heard of' at https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a30716811/ups-orders-10000-electric-vans-from-ev-maker-you-probably-havent-heard-of/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a30716811/ups-order... > "Together, our teams [at Arrival] have been working hard to create bespoke electric vehicles, based on our flexible skateboard platforms that meet the end-to-end needs of UPS from driving, loading/unloading and back-office operations,"
- krisoft 2y ago
  Didn't Arrival go bankrupt? https://fortune.com/europe/2024/02/06/british-ev-maker-valued-13-billion-administration-without-making-sales-nasdaq/ https://fortune.com/europe/2024/02/06/british-ev-maker-value... I think I have seen a youtuber who was buying some of the prototype UPS trucks on an auction: https://youtu.be/63R3mt61g_Y https://youtu.be/63R3mt61g_Y

Is there an explanation for why the USPS needs custom-designed vehicles built by a defense contractor when every other last mile delivery company just buys ordinary vans and trucks?

drfuchs 2y ago

UPS trucks are custom designed for UPS; they used to have a nice documentary about it. New Amazon trucks around where I live are clearly custom (and also not very pretty, if you ask me).

robohoe 2y ago
New Amazon trucks are built by Rivian.
- MBCook 2y ago
  I saw a Rivian mobile service van for the first time about two weeks ago. I was behind it in traffic. It’s exactly the same design as Amazon, just different paint. All I could think of was “they repainted an Amazon van“. I know Rivian makes them all. But seeing so many Amazon vans has changed who “owns“ the design in my mind.
pishpash 2y ago
None have huge windows like this. Are the tasks that different?
- kelnos 2y ago
  Perhaps the next generation of UPS trucks will have large windows like the new USPS trucks. If it seems to be a useful feature, others will adopt it eventually.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    It's very clearly a useful feature for seeing children while driving round residential areas, where they might be playing in the street. Since it costs extra, Amazon will only adopt if if they're forced, either by regulation or significant social pressure.

petejansson 2y ago

Last mile delivery companies don't handle the volume of non-package traffic that the USPS does. At that scale, tailoring can really pay off in productivity.

queuebert 2y ago
Are you saying that the USPS delivering a handful of advertisements in addition to the odd package has greater demands than UPS/Fedex/Amazon delivering the bulk of the large packages in our society?
- kelnos 2y ago
  Not necessarily greater (though I'd think so, yes), but certainly different.
- philwelch 2y ago
  It’s definitely way more than a handful; spam makes up the vast majority of my USPS service by quantity and probably the largest share by volume.

enriquec 2y ago

seriously - what a waste of money. Guaranteed the maintenance is rife with corrupt arrangements. Also guaranteed that almost any American car manufacturer (Rivian, Tesla, Ford, etc.) would have done a far better job for far less. Did they even pretend to have a fair bidding system? Oshkosh Defense? Seriously?! What a joke.

Kye 2y ago
How is this any different from the Grumman Long Life Vehicle it replaces? It worked well last time.
- pishpash 2y ago
  The only thing that comes to mind is maybe defense co. has experience building with indestructible materials, and the specs are for lasting 50 years, which when amortized is optimal for an entity like the government that can dump huge amounts of capital ($40B) at once that a private sector CEO can never do.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    It is, to some degree, a jobs program. Whoever wins is guaranteed a lot of work for a long time. So contractors really want it. I don't think Tesla or Rivian are used to working with government contracts. I'm not sure how much someone like Ford does either outside of mild customization. But defense contractors spend all their time working with the government, building to their specifications, handling the requirements and compliance/etc. They're simply very very well equipped to work on such a contract. They'd also be very used to making something for decades because that's what the government wants. Does Ford have a vehicle they make that's nearly unchanged for 30 years? I'd assume even the transit vans have changed a lot in that timeframe.
  - philwelch 2y ago
    I think it’s mostly that defense contractors are specialized in selling to the government, which entails jumping through regulatory compliance hoops and placating elected officials by distributing the supply chain across as many congressional districts as possible.

wannacboatmovie 2y ago

Because they don't deliver to mailboxes on the curb opposite the driver in a LHD vehicle?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

aeturnum 2y ago

Name one last mile delivery company that doesn't have a purpose built van supplier? Amazon is getting Rivian to build theirs (after trying buying off the shelf)[1]. UPS uses a ford chassis but custom body work[2]. Fedex is perhaps the closest as they work with many manufacturers, but they have their vehicles custom built for them[3]. [1] https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/transportation/everything-you-need-to-know-about-amazons-electric-delivery-vans-from-rivian https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/transportation/everything-y... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Trucks/comments/ppo5tu/what_model_are_the_ups_trucks_i_heard_that_they/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Trucks/comments/ppo5tu/what_model_a... [3] https://trucksauthority.com/who-makes-fedex-trucks/ https://trucksauthority.com/who-makes-fedex-trucks/

sofixa 2y ago
French, German, Dutch, Swiss, British, Spanish etc etc etc post office, alongside DHL/FedEx/TNT/etc. in each of those?
- aeturnum 2y ago
  I do not have detailed knowledge about the various national postal services you mention, but I suspect you also don't? The German post uses custom EVs[1]. If you really want to disagree please find a source that says a service uses off the shelf vehicles. [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103326_germans-to-build-own-unique-electric-vans-for-postal-service https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103326_germans-to-buil...
  - jdietrich 2y ago
    Royal Mail use a wide range of off-the-shelf vehicles. They don't seem to have any particular brand loyalty. https://www.flickr.com/photos/76716069@N03/galleries/72157651385457941/with/14450073721 https://www.flickr.com/photos/76716069@N03/galleries/7215765...
    - aeturnum 2y ago
      I don't mean to say that delivery companies must only use custom-built vehicles - but that basically all services have some custom vehicles. As an example the Royal Mail does seem to use a lot of production vehicles, but they also are working with Arrival for what look like custom made delivery vans. You can compare the Royal Mail vehicle made by Arrival[1] and their generic landing page for their van sales[2]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/DesignPorn/comments/iskdah/royal_mails_new_electric_delivery_van_is_just_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DesignPorn/comments/iskdah/royal_ma... [2] https://arrival.com/topic/van https://arrival.com/topic/van

voytec 2y ago

They are testing "ordinary" vans as well. They purchased 6 Canoo vans[0] for testing and announced plan to buy 9000 Ford E-Transit vehicles[1] earlier this year. [0] https://www.press.canoo.com/press-release/canoo-reaches-agreement-with-us-postal-service-for-purchase-of-electric-vehicles https://www.press.canoo.com/press-release/canoo-reaches-agre... [1] https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2024/01/22/usps-unveils-e-transit-parcel-delivery-vans-and-charging-infrast.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2024...

bombcar 2y ago

They want to be able to buy the exact same vehicles for the next 40 or 50 years.

dzhiurgis 2y ago
How is that a good idea?

eesmith 2y ago

UPS doesn't just buy ordinary vans and trucks. 'UPS Orders 10,000 Electric Vans from EV Maker You Probably Haven't Heard of' at https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a30716811/ups-orders-10000-electric-vans-from-ev-maker-you-probably-havent-heard-of/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a30716811/ups-order... > "Together, our teams [at Arrival] have been working hard to create bespoke electric vehicles, based on our flexible skateboard platforms that meet the end-to-end needs of UPS from driving, loading/unloading and back-office operations,"

krisoft 2y ago
Didn't Arrival go bankrupt? https://fortune.com/europe/2024/02/06/british-ev-maker-valued-13-billion-administration-without-making-sales-nasdaq/ https://fortune.com/europe/2024/02/06/british-ev-maker-value... I think I have seen a youtuber who was buying some of the prototype UPS trucks on an auction: https://youtu.be/63R3mt61g_Y https://youtu.be/63R3mt61g_Y