31 ms·

we need this in all countries. In fact it's curious that this is not the first priority

by seydor 2y ago

lukan 2y ago
Car companies rather sell new cars, than conversion kits and they do have quite a lobby.
- chii 2y ago
  It's the same as mobile phones. Most phones have unreplacible batteries, because it's commercially better for their bottom line. It's not like phones improve sufficiently to justify buying a new one, but the battery lose charge significantly over time. A car has similar issues. There are only small parts of the car that wears out, and by replacing those parts, the car can be made to function for significantly longer. But modern cars are so complex and intertwined, that it's difficult to just replace worn parts (not to mention difficult to even find those parts available). Hopefully the conversion to EV cars will resolve some of these problems, but i dont have high hopes. It's not like EV manufacturers are going out of their way to make the car's batteries replacible.
  - lukan 2y ago
    "It's not like EV manufacturers are going out of their way to make the car's batteries replacible" But since electric cars are mechanically a bit simpler, there are opportunities for small companies willing to disrupt the market or at least find a niche for reliable and easy to fix cars.
    - chii 2y ago
      > willing to disrupt the market i doubt it, because the whole platform is controlled by the EV manufacturer, and they can easily prevent it (via software for example). Think inkjet printers. If EV batteries are to be made replacible, it needs to be mandated by law. And to be honest, i think a car's battery should be replacible (and be easy/convenient to do so) - imagine instead of charging your car, you will drive up to a "gas" station and just replace the current flat batteries with full ones in a few minutes. Think gas stove tanks.
      - mharig 2y ago
        [dead]
  - murderfs 2y ago
    > It's not like phones improve sufficiently to justify buying a new one, but the battery lose charge significantly over time. A five year old car engine is basically indistinguishable from a brand new car engine; a five year old cellphone chipset is going to have half of the performance and a quarter of the performance per watt as a brand new cellphone.
    - bluefirebrand 2y ago
      Five year old car still gets you from place to place, five year old phone still loads your emails, sends texts, places phone calls, etc... Most people don't use anywhere near their phones full performance Or their cars, for that matter
- gwervc 2y ago
  This is flagrant with the EU raising import tariffs on Chinese EV. There is a lot of communication about the climate transition and how electric stuff is needed to save the world, but when cheap options are available from China it's a big no no because it goes against European manufacturers interests.
  - jq-r 2y ago
    Exactly. This whole scheme won't work in EU because it's against car manufacturer's interest. The whole of eastern Europe is flooded by second hand German cars and the reason is twofold. First, the western Europe still can afford to change cars every few years, and secondly, the purchase power IMO of the eastern Europe is falling behind so second hand cars look more affordable then buying a new one. If I were to install an electric motor in my car there is no chance I'm hell that I would be able to make it road legal. Last year I bought homologated Philips LED bulbs for my car to replace crappy incandescent bulbs and the car failed the inspection. "You can't have LED bulbs on a car manufactured with incandescents". Doesn't matter that the beam is completely correct and doesn't blind other drivers, and they have instruments to check it. "It the law, go away".
    - anticensor 2y ago
      Have you considered taking the whole vehicle out-of-type and getting all existing parts approved under IVA before giving up?
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    To be clear, it's both the manufacturer's interests and the interests of European workers. As long as we demand from every person that they earn a living, them using their political power to protect their national industry should be expected. Yes, cheap Chinese EV's are better for the environment, but that's small comfort to all the people employed by European car companies that are getting out-competed who hit the streets as a result. If we want to start actually tackling climate change we need to unwind this notion that everyone must earn a living because there are simply vast swathes of the economy that are just redundant and do not need to exist.
gregoriol 2y ago
This is useful only in some cases when it's better to keep some of the old stuff. It doesn't make sense to convert a post-2000 car: it would be very inefficient regarding the space use (too much stuff already in, no place for large enough battery, ...), the electricity consumption (those cars have a lot of electronics/ACs not optimised for batteries), and price wise (most of those cars don't cost much today). It would be much more efficient to create cheap/light EVs: today's focus is mostly on expensive/large EVs with a huge lot of accessories/screens/... because that's where the money is for regular car brands. But if one make could build something like a Willys Jeep EV, or a least something like an early-90s small car that didn't have all of todays gadgets (Renault Twingo, Mini, Volkswagen Coccinelle, ...), they would be much more useful for those markets. Another problem is still electricity grid: in a lot of countries, it's not up-to a large scale EV deployment.
- b112 2y ago
  Agree but with the logic that "all types" need to be made. There is a very good market for a car for city dwellers, especially as a second car for them. Many families have two cars (get over it, that's reality), but I often see them buy that second car as an EV, keeping a gas guzzler to assuage range fears. This is an excellent opportunity for that small, 100km range, low tech as you say car. Just batteries, motor. Just for local jaunts. Perfect.
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    I could do a commuter car with even a 50 km range, if it was cheap enough. But since I need a heater and air conditioner, and modern safety regulations are what they are, there’s very little chance that it can be made cheaply enough.
- gandalfian 2y ago
  "But if one make could build something like a Willys Jeep EV" Look up electric mini moke. Exactly what you are describing. Rich man's toy mind. If there's a Chinese knock off it could be very cheap though.
- numpad0 2y ago
planb 2y ago
I doubt this is economically feasible in high-wage countries (like Germany). Yes, EVs are expensive, but having a car completely transformed (plus certifcations and the cost of the transformation kit itself) will be even more expensive.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  There are a few companies doing it in EU but most of them are focusing on premium classic cars. For some of those, especially sports car, it can look as a sacrilege but I would have no issue converting say, a Bentley, Rolls Royce or Jaguar/Daimler coach to electric. These used to be built to transport rich people in total comfort, you don't need a smelly, noisy engine on them anyway.
  - planb 2y ago
    Exactly what I mean - car freaks (if they are not "combustion engine freaks") with enough disposable income surely love this. But it's not a feasible way to transform the individual transport sector to a greener footprint.
lodovic 2y ago
I wonder how these conversion kits affect safety. These cars are crash-tested at a specific weight distribution. Adding lots of batteries make the car behave different besides being a fire hazard. I would expect that converted cars need to be inspected thoroughly before being allowed on the road.
- seydor 2y ago
  People already convert gasoline to gas. Weight can be added
infecto 2y ago
Hard disagree. It does not make sense in most nations with higher skilled labor wages. It makes no financial sense especially considering you would be spending a hefty premium on top of the vehicle itself. Better for that ICE to live its useful life as it is.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

we need this in all countries. In fact it's curious that this is not the first priority

by seydor 2y ago

we need this in all countries. In fact it's curious that this is not the first priority

lukan 2y ago

Car companies rather sell new cars, than conversion kits and they do have quite a lobby.

chii 2y ago
It's the same as mobile phones. Most phones have unreplacible batteries, because it's commercially better for their bottom line. It's not like phones improve sufficiently to justify buying a new one, but the battery lose charge significantly over time. A car has similar issues. There are only small parts of the car that wears out, and by replacing those parts, the car can be made to function for significantly longer. But modern cars are so complex and intertwined, that it's difficult to just replace worn parts (not to mention difficult to even find those parts available). Hopefully the conversion to EV cars will resolve some of these problems, but i dont have high hopes. It's not like EV manufacturers are going out of their way to make the car's batteries replacible.
- lukan 2y ago
  "It's not like EV manufacturers are going out of their way to make the car's batteries replacible" But since electric cars are mechanically a bit simpler, there are opportunities for small companies willing to disrupt the market or at least find a niche for reliable and easy to fix cars.
  - chii 2y ago
    > willing to disrupt the market i doubt it, because the whole platform is controlled by the EV manufacturer, and they can easily prevent it (via software for example). Think inkjet printers. If EV batteries are to be made replacible, it needs to be mandated by law. And to be honest, i think a car's battery should be replacible (and be easy/convenient to do so) - imagine instead of charging your car, you will drive up to a "gas" station and just replace the current flat batteries with full ones in a few minutes. Think gas stove tanks.
    - mharig 2y ago
      [dead]
- murderfs 2y ago
  > It's not like phones improve sufficiently to justify buying a new one, but the battery lose charge significantly over time. A five year old car engine is basically indistinguishable from a brand new car engine; a five year old cellphone chipset is going to have half of the performance and a quarter of the performance per watt as a brand new cellphone.
  - bluefirebrand 2y ago
    Five year old car still gets you from place to place, five year old phone still loads your emails, sends texts, places phone calls, etc... Most people don't use anywhere near their phones full performance Or their cars, for that matter
gwervc 2y ago
This is flagrant with the EU raising import tariffs on Chinese EV. There is a lot of communication about the climate transition and how electric stuff is needed to save the world, but when cheap options are available from China it's a big no no because it goes against European manufacturers interests.
- jq-r 2y ago
  Exactly. This whole scheme won't work in EU because it's against car manufacturer's interest. The whole of eastern Europe is flooded by second hand German cars and the reason is twofold. First, the western Europe still can afford to change cars every few years, and secondly, the purchase power IMO of the eastern Europe is falling behind so second hand cars look more affordable then buying a new one. If I were to install an electric motor in my car there is no chance I'm hell that I would be able to make it road legal. Last year I bought homologated Philips LED bulbs for my car to replace crappy incandescent bulbs and the car failed the inspection. "You can't have LED bulbs on a car manufactured with incandescents". Doesn't matter that the beam is completely correct and doesn't blind other drivers, and they have instruments to check it. "It the law, go away".
  - anticensor 2y ago
    Have you considered taking the whole vehicle out-of-type and getting all existing parts approved under IVA before giving up?
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  To be clear, it's both the manufacturer's interests and the interests of European workers. As long as we demand from every person that they earn a living, them using their political power to protect their national industry should be expected. Yes, cheap Chinese EV's are better for the environment, but that's small comfort to all the people employed by European car companies that are getting out-competed who hit the streets as a result. If we want to start actually tackling climate change we need to unwind this notion that everyone must earn a living because there are simply vast swathes of the economy that are just redundant and do not need to exist.

gregoriol 2y ago

This is useful only in some cases when it's better to keep some of the old stuff. It doesn't make sense to convert a post-2000 car: it would be very inefficient regarding the space use (too much stuff already in, no place for large enough battery, ...), the electricity consumption (those cars have a lot of electronics/ACs not optimised for batteries), and price wise (most of those cars don't cost much today). It would be much more efficient to create cheap/light EVs: today's focus is mostly on expensive/large EVs with a huge lot of accessories/screens/... because that's where the money is for regular car brands. But if one make could build something like a Willys Jeep EV, or a least something like an early-90s small car that didn't have all of todays gadgets (Renault Twingo, Mini, Volkswagen Coccinelle, ...), they would be much more useful for those markets. Another problem is still electricity grid: in a lot of countries, it's not up-to a large scale EV deployment.

b112 2y ago
Agree but with the logic that "all types" need to be made. There is a very good market for a car for city dwellers, especially as a second car for them. Many families have two cars (get over it, that's reality), but I often see them buy that second car as an EV, keeping a gas guzzler to assuage range fears. This is an excellent opportunity for that small, 100km range, low tech as you say car. Just batteries, motor. Just for local jaunts. Perfect.
- devilbunny 2y ago
  I could do a commuter car with even a 50 km range, if it was cheap enough. But since I need a heater and air conditioner, and modern safety regulations are what they are, there’s very little chance that it can be made cheaply enough.
gandalfian 2y ago
"But if one make could build something like a Willys Jeep EV" Look up electric mini moke. Exactly what you are describing. Rich man's toy mind. If there's a Chinese knock off it could be very cheap though.
numpad0 2y ago

planb 2y ago

I doubt this is economically feasible in high-wage countries (like Germany). Yes, EVs are expensive, but having a car completely transformed (plus certifcations and the cost of the transformation kit itself) will be even more expensive.

prmoustache 2y ago
There are a few companies doing it in EU but most of them are focusing on premium classic cars. For some of those, especially sports car, it can look as a sacrilege but I would have no issue converting say, a Bentley, Rolls Royce or Jaguar/Daimler coach to electric. These used to be built to transport rich people in total comfort, you don't need a smelly, noisy engine on them anyway.
- planb 2y ago
  Exactly what I mean - car freaks (if they are not "combustion engine freaks") with enough disposable income surely love this. But it's not a feasible way to transform the individual transport sector to a greener footprint.

lodovic 2y ago

I wonder how these conversion kits affect safety. These cars are crash-tested at a specific weight distribution. Adding lots of batteries make the car behave different besides being a fire hazard. I would expect that converted cars need to be inspected thoroughly before being allowed on the road.

seydor 2y ago
People already convert gasoline to gas. Weight can be added

infecto 2y ago

Hard disagree. It does not make sense in most nations with higher skilled labor wages. It makes no financial sense especially considering you would be spending a hefty premium on top of the vehicle itself. Better for that ICE to live its useful life as it is.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]