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Exit node applies only to traffic that goes into a clearnet. You could to illegal stuff, but only tor users have protection and website owners are liable to rai
by ponorin 2y ago
Exit node applies only to traffic that goes into a clearnet. You could to illegal stuff, but only tor users have protection and website owners are liable to raids should they allow illegal stuff to happen on their platforms.
With Tor Hidden Service there's no exit node as such since traffic terminates inside the Tor network. The networking route is doubly anonymized so both the server and the client can't track each other down.
- Manuel_D 2y agoPerhaps I'm not understanding something. I'm imagining this scenario: 1. Bob is running a Tor exit node. 2. Charlie is a government official investigating illegal content (use your imagination) 3. Charlie downloads illegal content via Tor 4. This content is sent to Charlie from Bob's exit node. 5. Charlie observes that Bob's exit node sent him illegal content. I understand that even if Bob is raided and his computer searched, they cannot find the website hosting the illegal content. But Charlie would know that Bob helped deliver the illegal content. Tor Hidden Service does not anonymize the exit node from the client.
- varenc 2y agoYour mixing up general Tor use vs Tor hidden services. With hidden services there’s not really an exit node because the traffic never exits the Tor network. Charlie could only see the machine in the final step of requesting the illegal content it Charlie was hosting the hidden service themselves. These requests can come from many different Tor operators not just exit nodes.
- Manuel_D 2y agoTo be clear, Bob is not the host of the illegal content. Bob is just the second-to-last hop before the content reaches the end destination (Charlie). My understanding of the tor network is that it obfuscates traffic across many hops. The path content takes from the host to Charlie: Host -> Node 1 -> Node 2 -> ... Bob -> Charlie this obfuscates the Host from Charlie. But Charlie knows that Bob sent him illegal content. Yes, Bob didn't host the content. The host is obfuscated. But Bob is still delivering illegal content and Charlie knows it.
- aniviacat 2y agoExit nodes are not the nodes that are directly facing tor users. Those nodes are called "Guard Relays". Guard Relays usually don't have these issues, since you have to be somewhat technical to actively probe relays by requesting content through tor. And technical people know there isn't any point to rading an operator's home.
- fn-mote 2y ago> Bob is still delivering illegal content and Charlie knows it Does BOB know they are delivering illegal content? No... is it even possible to send unencrypted traffic by Tor? If it's even possible, Charlie must be the only person in the world doing it.
- Manuel_D 2y ago> Does BOB know they are delivering illegal content? He does when Charlie knocks on his door and informs him that he delivered CSE to him. Ignorance of the fact that one is breaking the law is rarely accepted as a defense. Carriers usually get this protection when when meet some standards of safeguards and cooperation with law enforcement.
- Zak 2y agoIgnorance of the law is not generally accepted as a legal defense, but ignorance of facts is. Most crimes involve a mental state of knowledge or intent with respect to the wrongdoing, and an exit node operator does not know what users are accessing. Taking the wrong jacket by mistake is not theft, and operating the exit node through which someone downloads CSAM is not criminal possession of CSAM or knowing facilitation thereof.
- Manuel_D 2y agoDo you think drug mules get off scot-free when they say "I didn't know what was in that package"?
- Vecr 2y agoHidden service connections don't go through exit nodes. In theory it's two back-to-back Tor connection that meet somewhere in the network, but you can also think of it (possibly more correctly) as a six-hop Tor connection to an exit node that is only used to directly connect to the backend server. If set up right this prevents government sniffing at all points.
- Manuel_D 2y agoThe final recipient is going to be able to decrypt the content, right? Regardless of "hidden service connection" or "exit nodes". Charlie is the final recipient and will be able to decrypt the content and know that it's illegal content. Is there some mechanism that prevents Charlie from knowing who sent the content to him? Fundamentally, you can't stop the government from sniffing at the endpoint. Because they're not really "sniffing" they're just requesting content like any normal Tor user.
- Hizonner 2y ago> Is there some mechanism that prevents Charlie from knowing who sent the content to him? That is, in fact, the whole point of Tor. In the hidden service case, neither end can identify the other.
- Manuel_D 2y agoSorry, in case I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about identifying the site hosting the content. I'm talking about the second-to-last hop in the traffic. My understanding is that Tor obfuscates traffic by sending through several hops, each one decrypting a layer of traffic (hence the "onion" network). So we have: Host -> Node 1 -> Node 2 -> .... -> Bob -> Charlie. Charlie doesn't know where the Host is. But Charlie does know that Bob sent him illegal content. Or is that final link, from Bob to Charlie, also obfuscated somehow? If so, how did OP get raided by police if he's supposed to be hidden?
- Hizonner 2y ago
- rtkwe 2y agoBecause it's not illegal to do that and if they're accessing hidden services they know they're accessing it via TOR and aren't directly connected to the illegal host. The most common reason exit nodes get raided is because they're the exit for some illegal user and appear as the source of the illegal activity.