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Open source is about giving and business model is about taking: it's basically a plan to take money from society.

by akomtu 2y ago

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
> and business model is about taking Commercial transactions can be win-win. I get money, you get a product that you desire. We both win.
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  And business can produce a positive net externality. For example; education and healthcare. Not only do both parties get something they wanted more than what they had, society as a whole prospers. Sadly many generations have now been brought up on morally bankrupt ideas about business and markets. Today there's an almost exclusively degenerate focus on "making money" rather than "creating value". But this applies to almost any human endeavour. If you rarefy it into some extreme and pure form, it becomes absurd, corrupt and self-defeating.
  - mistrial9 2y ago
    individual survival has a way to bringing that out in people.. real or imagined needs for survival, or a close second, competitive pack pecking order with losers really losing in serious ways
    - nonrandomstring 2y ago
      > real or imagined needs for survival You're right, and I think the gap between real and imagined needs has become a chasm. People today live in a fantasy world, imagined needs, imagined harms and enemies, imagined opportunities... It's not necessities but the self-created fantasies that dominate our thoughts. The ordinary, well fed, comfortable life is just not good enough any more. Simply having an ordinary, successful business that helps the world is not enough. So people pay the price; living in abject existential fear of completely unreal things - of losing their imaginary gains, like getting banned from Facebook or Twitter, or losing at some online game like the "stock market". They lie awake worrying about a number in a computer that represents their wealth - not their actual wealth as capability, as a mind and body. That is what makes us into selfish and insecure people who create negative externalities on the world we live in instead of making it better. Because it's impossible to get lasting satisfaction from these things. Too many "business people" I meet these days are utterly trapped in that unreality.
- psychoslave 2y ago
  Unless you're product is air, water or food, chances are good that what one desire is just a manufactured impulse of society, that is mostly driven by advertisement mafia these days. It might be less awful than fear of eternal burn in hell propaganda by former wannabe world masters, to be fair. Still unless we don't all get the same actual consideration in term of dignity, mutual respect, life insensitives and encouragements to continuously improve our cultural, social and economical consolidations and flourishing, buying the propaganda will remind acceptance of pretending to be blind on the ugly part of the deal, whatever side we fall into.
  - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
    > Unless you're product is air, water or food, chances are good that what one desire is just a manufactured impulse of society That does not matter. I desire going to the cinema with my kids, I desire riding a bike, I desire a car for my family. It's irrelevant that these feelings are instilled through marketing: they are genuine feelings. I internalized that this is something I desire and I will look for someone who provides me with that. When I go to the cinema I leave happy, I do not think about that someone ripped me off. I could never have made that movie myself.
    - AyyEye 2y ago
      My new cinema company pumps aerosolized nicotine through the ventilation system to help induce desire. I (and my investors) are glad we were able to provide your desires for your """genuine feelings""". And I get money. Win/win.
  - RHSeeger 2y ago
    I buy plenty of things that aren't advertised to me. From the services of folks to do things I don't want to do, to the constructions of things that I don't know how to build, to simple things like medicines that keep me from being dead. I also buy some times that are advertised to me, but they are _far_ smaller in value than the things from the previous group.
    - 2y ago
- atrus 2y ago
  Sure, but one side can win more than the other, and one side's goal is to take more than it's worth. That is what profit is afterall, no?
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    Profit is taking more than you invested. "How much it is worth" isn't on the previous sentence. You make a profitable business by creating things that are worth more than the things you consume making them.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
      And to reinforce that point, the business' profitability can be increased by providing things that are worth more to the buyer than they price they pay.
  - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
    There can be highly disbalanced and problematic transactions. If you life is on the line and I am the only one with the cure I have enormous leverage. That’s a type of market failure that hopefully we will see less off. But I don’t think it’s right to see every type of transaction with that view. I like to think most businesses want to make money but also have happy customers.
mistrial9 2y ago
not quite - in civilized societies there is a concept of public goods.. long topic. That said, "profit" and "taking" are indeed linked at a deep level
- psychoslave 2y ago
  What is an uncivilized society, by the way?
swatcoder 2y ago
"Liberating" and "exchanging" might be more neutral and no less accurate, but they are largely disjoint categories regardless. Coming up with strategies to turn your "liberation" into some kind of "exchange" is naturally going to be a challenge, if possible at all.

Open source is about giving and business model is about taking: it's basically a plan to take money from society.

by akomtu 2y ago

Open source is about giving and business model is about taking: it's basically a plan to take money from society.

> and business model is about taking Commercial transactions can be win-win. I get money, you get a product that you desire. We both win.

nonrandomstring 2y ago
And business can produce a positive net externality. For example; education and healthcare. Not only do both parties get something they wanted more than what they had, society as a whole prospers. Sadly many generations have now been brought up on morally bankrupt ideas about business and markets. Today there's an almost exclusively degenerate focus on "making money" rather than "creating value". But this applies to almost any human endeavour. If you rarefy it into some extreme and pure form, it becomes absurd, corrupt and self-defeating.
- mistrial9 2y ago
  individual survival has a way to bringing that out in people.. real or imagined needs for survival, or a close second, competitive pack pecking order with losers really losing in serious ways
  - nonrandomstring 2y ago
    > real or imagined needs for survival You're right, and I think the gap between real and imagined needs has become a chasm. People today live in a fantasy world, imagined needs, imagined harms and enemies, imagined opportunities... It's not necessities but the self-created fantasies that dominate our thoughts. The ordinary, well fed, comfortable life is just not good enough any more. Simply having an ordinary, successful business that helps the world is not enough. So people pay the price; living in abject existential fear of completely unreal things - of losing their imaginary gains, like getting banned from Facebook or Twitter, or losing at some online game like the "stock market". They lie awake worrying about a number in a computer that represents their wealth - not their actual wealth as capability, as a mind and body. That is what makes us into selfish and insecure people who create negative externalities on the world we live in instead of making it better. Because it's impossible to get lasting satisfaction from these things. Too many "business people" I meet these days are utterly trapped in that unreality.
psychoslave 2y ago
Unless you're product is air, water or food, chances are good that what one desire is just a manufactured impulse of society, that is mostly driven by advertisement mafia these days. It might be less awful than fear of eternal burn in hell propaganda by former wannabe world masters, to be fair. Still unless we don't all get the same actual consideration in term of dignity, mutual respect, life insensitives and encouragements to continuously improve our cultural, social and economical consolidations and flourishing, buying the propaganda will remind acceptance of pretending to be blind on the ugly part of the deal, whatever side we fall into.
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  > Unless you're product is air, water or food, chances are good that what one desire is just a manufactured impulse of society That does not matter. I desire going to the cinema with my kids, I desire riding a bike, I desire a car for my family. It's irrelevant that these feelings are instilled through marketing: they are genuine feelings. I internalized that this is something I desire and I will look for someone who provides me with that. When I go to the cinema I leave happy, I do not think about that someone ripped me off. I could never have made that movie myself.
  - AyyEye 2y ago
    My new cinema company pumps aerosolized nicotine through the ventilation system to help induce desire. I (and my investors) are glad we were able to provide your desires for your """genuine feelings""". And I get money. Win/win.
- RHSeeger 2y ago
  I buy plenty of things that aren't advertised to me. From the services of folks to do things I don't want to do, to the constructions of things that I don't know how to build, to simple things like medicines that keep me from being dead. I also buy some times that are advertised to me, but they are _far_ smaller in value than the things from the previous group.
  - 2y ago
atrus 2y ago
Sure, but one side can win more than the other, and one side's goal is to take more than it's worth. That is what profit is afterall, no?
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  Profit is taking more than you invested. "How much it is worth" isn't on the previous sentence. You make a profitable business by creating things that are worth more than the things you consume making them.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
    And to reinforce that point, the business' profitability can be increased by providing things that are worth more to the buyer than they price they pay.
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  There can be highly disbalanced and problematic transactions. If you life is on the line and I am the only one with the cure I have enormous leverage. That’s a type of market failure that hopefully we will see less off. But I don’t think it’s right to see every type of transaction with that view. I like to think most businesses want to make money but also have happy customers.

mistrial9 2y ago

not quite - in civilized societies there is a concept of public goods.. long topic. That said, "profit" and "taking" are indeed linked at a deep level

psychoslave 2y ago
What is an uncivilized society, by the way?

swatcoder 2y ago

"Liberating" and "exchanging" might be more neutral and no less accurate, but they are largely disjoint categories regardless. Coming up with strategies to turn your "liberation" into some kind of "exchange" is naturally going to be a challenge, if possible at all.