7 ms·

Asking this as a PC gamer who went fully digital ~15 years ago: why are optical drives such a big deal, is that because of buying/selling used games?

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
We don't have the option for physical on pc, but it's the only way to "own" a videogame. Even steam is at risk. If Gabe dies, bad stuff will happen.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  So far no one has managed to escape that "if" unless we go down into religious beliefs. Steam will go the way of dodo when the founder and his culture is no longer around. Who knows, the new management might even sell it to Microsoft and retire for life.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
    It's a running joke that Gabe is a god and will live forever
jsheard 2y ago
Partly due to used games, but even when buying new it's often cheaper to buy physical than digital due to retailers undercutting each other, while the digital store strictly adheres to MSRP until the game has been out for a while.
- danudey 2y ago
  Not just buying used games, but borrowing games as well. Being able to swap games with friends is a pretty compelling offer. (I'm all-digital and have been for the last nine years, but there are compelling reasons not to go that route)
  - paxys 2y ago
    Heck you can even borrow game disks from your local library.
    - a96 2y ago
      And movies and music and instructionals (including things that aren't on your, if any, streaming service). On disc.
gjsman-1000 2y ago
I refuse to have any business with digital only purchases; for a few reasons: 1. Just like movies, you don't own anything. Revocation can occur at any time. 2. More likely than movies, you might find your game patched to add or remove content you do not want. 3. You can't give your games to the next generation. Which matters a lot when your exposure to gaming started from NES and Atari hand-me-downs. 4. Every game you purchase is chained to just yourself. Which is actually stupidly selfish when you have a large extended family also interested in games. The Switch is a hit for borrowing back and forth from a large network of relatives and friends (and, if Nintendo's reading this and questioning the resale market - this has caused a lot of games to get bought that wouldn't have). 5. If you have a large NES collection, there will be someone interested in paying for it. If you have a large Switch collection, there will be someone interested in paying for it. Physical games have some asset value, and it can be thousands of dollars for larger collections. Digital games have zero value.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  I don't own a modern console other than the switch. Can you play a ps5 game from optical media without having ever connected your ps5 to the internet or will some refuse to run?
  - gjsman-1000 2y ago
    On the original PS5, yes. On the PS5 refresh, no, an internet connection is required to activate the drive, whether or not it came in the box. On the Xbox One... you haven't been able to, for over a decade. On Switch... Switch is just delightful. The game cards even come with the required system updates (criticism for lack of theming or music aside, the whole OS is under 400MB, so amazing things are possible). You can also update your game or system wirelessly, from any other Switch, which has a higher version of either, no internet necessary.
    - FMecha 2y ago
      >On the PS5 refresh, no, an internet connection is required to activate the drive, whether or not it came in the box. Because the disc drive and the main board are required to be paired with each other since the PS3/X360 era. People who repair PS3s (except super slims, for some reason) and PS4s need to re-pair the disc drive board with the main board (or failing both, replace both boards with one that has been already paired) every time there is drive replacement: https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Remarry_Bluray_Drive https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Remarry_Bluray_Drive (for PS3)
Hamuko 2y ago
The PlayStation Store is a monopoly on the PS5, so there's no price competition there. I compared the prices of disc releases and digital releases on the PS5 in early 2023 and you could often get the physical disc release for cheaper than the digital: Final Fantasy XVI (PS5): 65€ disc / 80€ digital. Hogwarts Legacy (PS5): 59€ disc / 75€ digital. Diablo IV (PS5): 70€ disc / 80€ digital. Resident Evil 4 (PS5): 60€ disc / 70€ digital.
- a96 2y ago
  And 30€ used or 10€ after they're past being brand new.
kstrauser 2y ago
Sony released this tutorial years ago in response to Microsoft making it harder to share Xbox games with your friends: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA That's lived in my head since.
- TMWNN 2y ago
  It's just below "$299" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaAYIKsDBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaAYIKsDBI> among the greatest moments of console marketing. (The single greatest moment isn't one moment, but turning an obscure technical description into "blast processing". <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bun8tA_ksZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bun8tA_ksZw>)
prmoustache 2y ago
I don't know about optical drives but I bought ~75% of my switch games as used cartridge. I think a lot of people would stop buying consoles if they couldn't sell the games they have finished or do not like anymore to fund the purchase of other games.
- wil421 2y ago
  Did you do it for nostalgic purposes? I buy the cartridges for nostalgic purposes. Most of the time the used games I want are only $10-$15 dollars less than a good Amazon or Target price. I don’t think the younger generations care as much, they just play free games anyway.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    > Most of the time the used games I want are only $10-$15 dollars less than a good Amazon or Target price. I bought Zelda Breath of the Wild for 25€ while it is still sold around 60-65€ on my country's amazon market and is not available anymore in many places. I mostly buy cartridge because I want to be able to play games regardless what happens of my nintendo account and I like being able to lend and borrow games with other switch owners. I remember as a kid we would swap games with friends for a few months so we can have access to other games.
pengaru 2y ago
In 40 years none of your digital only assets are going to work, if still accessible to you at all. I played Excitebike [0] on a friend's childhood NES and CRT TV while visiting over Thanksgiving. All we had to do was blow the dust off the cartridge, and we were living in 1984 again. Having physical copies makes this scenario far more likely to succeed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitebike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitebike
paxys 2y ago
Digital works on PC because there is competition. There are dozens of stores you can buy from, and the developer or publisher can also just sell games directly. On consoles Sony & Microsoft have a monopoly on distribution. So being able to buy/sell/borrow used disks is a huge money saver.
bane 2y ago
The situation for PC gamers is somewhat different than for console gamers. There's certain built in expectations in the market for compatibility across generations, long-term licensing, and free network services that just don't really exist in the console market. As a result it feels like you "own" games more with Steam and other similar services, while on consoles there is a history of closing down stores, and people simply losing access to purchased games. Physical media gives the impression at least to console gamers that they "own" the game for the long term and the loss of a digital storefront won't impact them (even if it's not always true).
EasyMark 2y ago
I think it’s due to “used games” market about 80%. Some people just like having physical media that can’t be taken away from them; others don’t care and are through with the game for a lifetime after they beat it/grow weary of it. I personally have tons of old games and kind of stopped buying new stuff after PS4. One day you’ll go to download “Gulliver’s Golden Adventure” for nostalgia and Steam will tell you to “fuck off, that game is gone”, but that won’t happen if you have it on vinyl
ajmurmann 2y ago
I stopped buying physical years ago when Amazon got rid of their 20%(?) pre-order discounts. However, I'd not trade my PS5 for a drive-less PS5 Pro, even if it was for free. Most of my PS4 games are on disc and I couldn't play them anymore. If Sony were to allow me to insert the disc and get the games added to my digital library (many platforms did this for Blu-Ray movies), I'd reconsider. But in the meantime I am tied to my disc drive
synicalx 2y ago
On PC you have your choice of marketplaces so it's somewhat less of an issue. On console you're locked into just the one marketplace with digital-only consoles, so if Sony wants to charge $100 for a game then that's the price. Once you've paid the $100 it's also tied to your account which is not necessarily always guaranteed to exist or be accessible, and is non-transferable. Whereas with a disk you can pay substantially less due to your choice of competitive retailers (in my region Space Marine 2 is $79 at some retailers or $109 from Sony), buy secondhand for older titles (most of my library is secondhand), and resell or trade-in games when you're finished with them. And of course it's not tied to an ephemeral account, so you will always have access to the titles you've purchased. Also for my use case, my PS5 doubles as a Blu-Ray player which is worth a good $100-200 just by itself.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
Mostly because I simply like having a collection to look at. It's like comparing a small library to a list of ebooks on Kindle. But yes, other obvious benefits include sharability, resellability (especially these days. So many childhood favorites sell for 200+ dollars for some reason), a perhaps false sense of preservation (I know there are some icky server issues on gen 7+ consoles, even for single player games), and simply liking the feel of a case and disc.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago

We don't have the option for physical on pc, but it's the only way to "own" a videogame. Even steam is at risk. If Gabe dies, bad stuff will happen.

pjmlp 2y ago
So far no one has managed to escape that "if" unless we go down into religious beliefs. Steam will go the way of dodo when the founder and his culture is no longer around. Who knows, the new management might even sell it to Microsoft and retire for life.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
  It's a running joke that Gabe is a god and will live forever

jsheard 2y ago

Partly due to used games, but even when buying new it's often cheaper to buy physical than digital due to retailers undercutting each other, while the digital store strictly adheres to MSRP until the game has been out for a while.

danudey 2y ago
Not just buying used games, but borrowing games as well. Being able to swap games with friends is a pretty compelling offer. (I'm all-digital and have been for the last nine years, but there are compelling reasons not to go that route)
- paxys 2y ago
  Heck you can even borrow game disks from your local library.
  - a96 2y ago
    And movies and music and instructionals (including things that aren't on your, if any, streaming service). On disc.

gjsman-1000 2y ago

I refuse to have any business with digital only purchases; for a few reasons: 1. Just like movies, you don't own anything. Revocation can occur at any time. 2. More likely than movies, you might find your game patched to add or remove content you do not want. 3. You can't give your games to the next generation. Which matters a lot when your exposure to gaming started from NES and Atari hand-me-downs. 4. Every game you purchase is chained to just yourself. Which is actually stupidly selfish when you have a large extended family also interested in games. The Switch is a hit for borrowing back and forth from a large network of relatives and friends (and, if Nintendo's reading this and questioning the resale market - this has caused a lot of games to get bought that wouldn't have). 5. If you have a large NES collection, there will be someone interested in paying for it. If you have a large Switch collection, there will be someone interested in paying for it. Physical games have some asset value, and it can be thousands of dollars for larger collections. Digital games have zero value.

prmoustache 2y ago
I don't own a modern console other than the switch. Can you play a ps5 game from optical media without having ever connected your ps5 to the internet or will some refuse to run?
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  On the original PS5, yes. On the PS5 refresh, no, an internet connection is required to activate the drive, whether or not it came in the box. On the Xbox One... you haven't been able to, for over a decade. On Switch... Switch is just delightful. The game cards even come with the required system updates (criticism for lack of theming or music aside, the whole OS is under 400MB, so amazing things are possible). You can also update your game or system wirelessly, from any other Switch, which has a higher version of either, no internet necessary.
  - FMecha 2y ago
    >On the PS5 refresh, no, an internet connection is required to activate the drive, whether or not it came in the box. Because the disc drive and the main board are required to be paired with each other since the PS3/X360 era. People who repair PS3s (except super slims, for some reason) and PS4s need to re-pair the disc drive board with the main board (or failing both, replace both boards with one that has been already paired) every time there is drive replacement: https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Remarry_Bluray_Drive https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps3/Remarry_Bluray_Drive (for PS3)

Hamuko 2y ago

The PlayStation Store is a monopoly on the PS5, so there's no price competition there. I compared the prices of disc releases and digital releases on the PS5 in early 2023 and you could often get the physical disc release for cheaper than the digital: Final Fantasy XVI (PS5): 65€ disc / 80€ digital. Hogwarts Legacy (PS5): 59€ disc / 75€ digital. Diablo IV (PS5): 70€ disc / 80€ digital. Resident Evil 4 (PS5): 60€ disc / 70€ digital.

a96 2y ago
And 30€ used or 10€ after they're past being brand new.

kstrauser 2y ago

Sony released this tutorial years ago in response to Microsoft making it harder to share Xbox games with your friends: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA That's lived in my head since.

TMWNN 2y ago
It's just below "$299" <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaAYIKsDBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaAYIKsDBI> among the greatest moments of console marketing. (The single greatest moment isn't one moment, but turning an obscure technical description into "blast processing". <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bun8tA_ksZw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bun8tA_ksZw>)

prmoustache 2y ago

I don't know about optical drives but I bought ~75% of my switch games as used cartridge. I think a lot of people would stop buying consoles if they couldn't sell the games they have finished or do not like anymore to fund the purchase of other games.

wil421 2y ago
Did you do it for nostalgic purposes? I buy the cartridges for nostalgic purposes. Most of the time the used games I want are only $10-$15 dollars less than a good Amazon or Target price. I don’t think the younger generations care as much, they just play free games anyway.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  > Most of the time the used games I want are only $10-$15 dollars less than a good Amazon or Target price. I bought Zelda Breath of the Wild for 25€ while it is still sold around 60-65€ on my country's amazon market and is not available anymore in many places. I mostly buy cartridge because I want to be able to play games regardless what happens of my nintendo account and I like being able to lend and borrow games with other switch owners. I remember as a kid we would swap games with friends for a few months so we can have access to other games.

pengaru 2y ago

In 40 years none of your digital only assets are going to work, if still accessible to you at all. I played Excitebike [0] on a friend's childhood NES and CRT TV while visiting over Thanksgiving. All we had to do was blow the dust off the cartridge, and we were living in 1984 again. Having physical copies makes this scenario far more likely to succeed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitebike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitebike

paxys 2y ago

Digital works on PC because there is competition. There are dozens of stores you can buy from, and the developer or publisher can also just sell games directly. On consoles Sony & Microsoft have a monopoly on distribution. So being able to buy/sell/borrow used disks is a huge money saver.

bane 2y ago

The situation for PC gamers is somewhat different than for console gamers. There's certain built in expectations in the market for compatibility across generations, long-term licensing, and free network services that just don't really exist in the console market. As a result it feels like you "own" games more with Steam and other similar services, while on consoles there is a history of closing down stores, and people simply losing access to purchased games. Physical media gives the impression at least to console gamers that they "own" the game for the long term and the loss of a digital storefront won't impact them (even if it's not always true).

EasyMark 2y ago

I think it’s due to “used games” market about 80%. Some people just like having physical media that can’t be taken away from them; others don’t care and are through with the game for a lifetime after they beat it/grow weary of it. I personally have tons of old games and kind of stopped buying new stuff after PS4. One day you’ll go to download “Gulliver’s Golden Adventure” for nostalgia and Steam will tell you to “fuck off, that game is gone”, but that won’t happen if you have it on vinyl

ajmurmann 2y ago

I stopped buying physical years ago when Amazon got rid of their 20%(?) pre-order discounts. However, I'd not trade my PS5 for a drive-less PS5 Pro, even if it was for free. Most of my PS4 games are on disc and I couldn't play them anymore. If Sony were to allow me to insert the disc and get the games added to my digital library (many platforms did this for Blu-Ray movies), I'd reconsider. But in the meantime I am tied to my disc drive

synicalx 2y ago

On PC you have your choice of marketplaces so it's somewhat less of an issue. On console you're locked into just the one marketplace with digital-only consoles, so if Sony wants to charge $100 for a game then that's the price. Once you've paid the $100 it's also tied to your account which is not necessarily always guaranteed to exist or be accessible, and is non-transferable. Whereas with a disk you can pay substantially less due to your choice of competitive retailers (in my region Space Marine 2 is $79 at some retailers or $109 from Sony), buy secondhand for older titles (most of my library is secondhand), and resell or trade-in games when you're finished with them. And of course it's not tied to an ephemeral account, so you will always have access to the titles you've purchased. Also for my use case, my PS5 doubles as a Blu-Ray player which is worth a good $100-200 just by itself.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

Mostly because I simply like having a collection to look at. It's like comparing a small library to a list of ebooks on Kindle. But yes, other obvious benefits include sharability, resellability (especially these days. So many childhood favorites sell for 200+ dollars for some reason), a perhaps false sense of preservation (I know there are some icky server issues on gen 7+ consoles, even for single player games), and simply liking the feel of a case and disc.