4 ms·

Fman Build System

59 points by LorenDB 2y ago

IshKebab 2y ago
I don't think this is what most people think when they hear "build system". Also... I dunno if people are scrambling away from Electron's inefficiencies just to replace it with Python's.
- triclops200 2y ago
  I would most certainly be willing to leave electron for a python GUI framework just for the memory savings alone; I don't think the speed is the only issue. Plus, python can be fast enough if you just use it a a glue for libraries that are written more efficently. Don't get me wrong, I dislike python a lot, but, it's not electron/js. Electron has the niceties that it does with being able to render so much via browser universalism, but, having that much of it around when your app doesn't need all of it is the problem with it fundamentally. The best time I've had writing GUIs personally has actually been in SDL via wrapper languages like common lisp, but, I like being able to roll my own systems. It definitely takes more setup for the results I want for reasonable production apps that need less weird edge cases in their UIs
  - fire_lake 2y ago
    GUI programming is not like array programming where you can easily send large computations out to a native library.
    - triclops200 2y ago
      GUI programming is an abstractive display layer, it most certainly can (and should) be designed around deferring larger tasks for UI responsiveness reasons, anyways
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      It's not CPU-bound either. I made snappy GUIs in Python twenty years ago.
      - IshKebab 2y ago
        Tell that to the Cura devs.
  - The_Colonel 2y ago
    > Plus, python can be fast enough if you just use it a a glue for libraries that are written more efficently. Yeah, Python can be fast enough if you don't use Python much. I don't see the point unless you're already heavily invested into Python.
    - triclops200 2y ago
      > already heavily invested in Python Yep, as the most frequently used language in general, but also as one of the only major options for a few subfields of the computational sciences at this point, I think that happens a lot. > yeah, python can be fast enough if you don't use Python much Yup, exactly what I'm saying. Turns out that's how many many larger projects in Python operate because we're apparently deciding as an engineering society that python is one of the universal glue languages (much to my personal chagrin)
- wonger_ 2y ago
  https://fman.io/blog/picking-technologies-for-a-desktop-app-in-2016/ https://fman.io/blog/picking-technologies-for-a-desktop-app-...
- squarefoot 2y ago
  Tauri looks promising as it does essentially the same without bundling a full browser, which honestly I find absurd except in very specific use cases. Also interesting that they want to support other languages beside Rust in the future. https://tauri.app/ https://tauri.app/
nine_k 2y ago
This is a GUI build system, Python + Qt. A number of good apps uses this pair, Fman apparently simplifies the creation of apps of this kind. Pretty certainly it's lighter weight than Electron, but not exactly featherweight. The key proposition is packaging for distribution: > PyInstaller for packaging, NSIS for Windows installers, .dmg files on macOS, .deb files on Ubuntu.
- sevensor 2y ago
  PyQt can be pretty snappy, but all it takes is a little ignorance implementing a slot method to tank performance. You really have to understand your program as a C++ event loop and not a regular Python application.
wonger_ 2y ago
I used this (fbs) once for one of my early projects. A few notes that I remember: - fbs was built ~2017 - to use Python 3.7+, PyQt6, or code signing, you need the paid version. The free version limits you to Python 3.6 and PyQt5. - the main command is fbs freeze, which builds an executable - fbs requires a couple changes to your project structure and main.py, compared to the default PyQt way
mherrmann 2y ago
Author here. Thank you for sharing. I'll be happy to answer any questions.
macmac 2y ago
Please notice the license. Not really an alternative for commercial use unless you want to pay, and even the look out for PyQT being GPL. Looks great for open source though.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Which is quite fair license, earn the same as one is willing to give to the authors of the tools that make the application possible in first place.
belthesar 2y ago
Interesting! This appears to be an alternative to the BeeWare Project and its suite of tools. I'd be interested in looking at them head-to-head. https://beeware.org/project/overview/ https://beeware.org/project/overview/
yellowapple 2y ago
As much as I hate Python, I love fbs. I've used it for a couple of projects and it's always been a breeze.

59 points by LorenDB 2y ago

I don't think this is what most people think when they hear "build system". Also... I dunno if people are scrambling away from Electron's inefficiencies just to replace it with Python's.

triclops200 2y ago
I would most certainly be willing to leave electron for a python GUI framework just for the memory savings alone; I don't think the speed is the only issue. Plus, python can be fast enough if you just use it a a glue for libraries that are written more efficently. Don't get me wrong, I dislike python a lot, but, it's not electron/js. Electron has the niceties that it does with being able to render so much via browser universalism, but, having that much of it around when your app doesn't need all of it is the problem with it fundamentally. The best time I've had writing GUIs personally has actually been in SDL via wrapper languages like common lisp, but, I like being able to roll my own systems. It definitely takes more setup for the results I want for reasonable production apps that need less weird edge cases in their UIs
- fire_lake 2y ago
  GUI programming is not like array programming where you can easily send large computations out to a native library.
  - triclops200 2y ago
    GUI programming is an abstractive display layer, it most certainly can (and should) be designed around deferring larger tasks for UI responsiveness reasons, anyways
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    It's not CPU-bound either. I made snappy GUIs in Python twenty years ago.
    - IshKebab 2y ago
      Tell that to the Cura devs.
- The_Colonel 2y ago
  > Plus, python can be fast enough if you just use it a a glue for libraries that are written more efficently. Yeah, Python can be fast enough if you don't use Python much. I don't see the point unless you're already heavily invested into Python.
  - triclops200 2y ago
    > already heavily invested in Python Yep, as the most frequently used language in general, but also as one of the only major options for a few subfields of the computational sciences at this point, I think that happens a lot. > yeah, python can be fast enough if you don't use Python much Yup, exactly what I'm saying. Turns out that's how many many larger projects in Python operate because we're apparently deciding as an engineering society that python is one of the universal glue languages (much to my personal chagrin)
wonger_ 2y ago
https://fman.io/blog/picking-technologies-for-a-desktop-app-in-2016/ https://fman.io/blog/picking-technologies-for-a-desktop-app-...
squarefoot 2y ago
Tauri looks promising as it does essentially the same without bundling a full browser, which honestly I find absurd except in very specific use cases. Also interesting that they want to support other languages beside Rust in the future. https://tauri.app/ https://tauri.app/

nine_k 2y ago

This is a GUI build system, Python + Qt. A number of good apps uses this pair, Fman apparently simplifies the creation of apps of this kind. Pretty certainly it's lighter weight than Electron, but not exactly featherweight. The key proposition is packaging for distribution: > PyInstaller for packaging, NSIS for Windows installers, .dmg files on macOS, .deb files on Ubuntu.

sevensor 2y ago
PyQt can be pretty snappy, but all it takes is a little ignorance implementing a slot method to tank performance. You really have to understand your program as a C++ event loop and not a regular Python application.

wonger_ 2y ago

I used this (fbs) once for one of my early projects. A few notes that I remember: - fbs was built ~2017 - to use Python 3.7+, PyQt6, or code signing, you need the paid version. The free version limits you to Python 3.6 and PyQt5. - the main command is fbs freeze, which builds an executable - fbs requires a couple changes to your project structure and main.py, compared to the default PyQt way

mherrmann 2y ago

Author here. Thank you for sharing. I'll be happy to answer any questions.

macmac 2y ago

Please notice the license. Not really an alternative for commercial use unless you want to pay, and even the look out for PyQT being GPL. Looks great for open source though.

pjmlp 2y ago
Which is quite fair license, earn the same as one is willing to give to the authors of the tools that make the application possible in first place.

belthesar 2y ago

Interesting! This appears to be an alternative to the BeeWare Project and its suite of tools. I'd be interested in looking at them head-to-head. https://beeware.org/project/overview/ https://beeware.org/project/overview/

yellowapple 2y ago

As much as I hate Python, I love fbs. I've used it for a couple of projects and it's always been a breeze.