8 ms·

AirPods Pro 2 adds 'clinical grade' hearing aid feature

281 points by janandonly 2y ago

minimaxir 2y ago
The keynote mentioned it's for H2 chips, meaning it should also work for the recently announced AirPods 4.
- a_vanderbilt 2y ago
  The additional segmentation of the regular AirPods is kind of confusing. Conceptually I know they sit between the base AirPods and the Pros, but am I paying more just for ANC?
  - minimaxir 2y ago
    Yes, and wireless charging/better case. Will have to see the tech specs after the event but it's an interesting price segmentation strategy.
  - jerlam 2y ago
    I am curious how well ANC will work without any kind of rubber tips to maintain seal.
    - a_vanderbilt 2y ago
      That was my first thought. I've used AirPod Pros and an expensive over-ear headset, and the headset was actually worse for ANC because of my sideburns/beard and glasses. Plane rides especially highlighted this, as the low-droning engine noise penetrated the weak ear seal easier. Perhaps the fancy acoustic feedback and ear topology modeling are going to alleviate this issue, but I'm not sure that it's going to resonate with consumers because it requires product knowledge. Give me decent ANC in the base model, and very good ANC in the Pros and it's immediately understandable what I am getting.
- favorited 2y ago
  They said it's in the process of FDA (and other agency) approval, which likely means the specific model is being validated for use as a medical device. If they only mentioned it for AirPods Pro 2, I wouldn't expect it on other devices.
  - minimaxir 2y ago
    Fair, although they likely saved it for the AirPods Pro 2 segment since there's no new hardware unlike the other products.
  - tedivm 2y ago
    Once you get one device approved it's easier to get others approved under one of the new fast track programs (or at least that's what my FDA consultant told me a couple of years ago, I'll admit I'm not personally an expert on this).
    - not_the_fda 2y ago
      Not exactly. A novel device has a higher bar to get clearance. If you are developing something that already exists i.e. a hearing aid then you can go the 510k route. Every model has to go through the same rigor with design controls and get clearance through the 510k process. There is a lot of process and documentation, and as a medical device you can't just update firmware and swap components as they go end of life. And you can't just discontinue a product. When you submit for approval you have to define the lifetime of the product and how you plan to support it through that lifetime. I imagine Apple will keep the AirPods Pro 2 around for about a decade as their hearing aid device.
nineplay 2y ago
I won't speak for everyone but my $1,500 hearing aides are terrible Bluetooth earbuds. Music streamed from my phone is full of static and I end up going back to my trusty wired headphones. If the AirPods work as hearing aides I'm never going back.
- gedy 2y ago
  Yeah I was very underwhelmed by sound quality of my not cheap hearing aids. Bose Hearphones and Airpod Pros were way better and much cheaper
- kshacker 2y ago
  Curious as a future patient. How long do the prescribed hearing aids lost? I don't know when the AirPods came but I have used only 2 generations and with a price tag of 200-250 odd, I don't mind replacing every 2-3 years, just trying to see comparison with the medical industry (whether we pay or the insurance pays)
  - Retric 2y ago
    In the US clinical hearing aids cost 2,000 to 7000$ for a pair (half that if you need one) + whatever the audiologist charges. Like a lot of medical expenses you can drop that significantly with over the counter options available for under 1,000$. That said, hearing loss varies quite a bit and high end devices have meaningful benefits in terms of customization.
  - desert_rue 2y ago
    My dad’s were in the 2k range and are expected to be good for about three years. Not that they don’t last longer- just that all the features like Bluetooth should last for three years.
- LooseMarmoset 2y ago
  I have a set of the Pro 2s. The noise cancellation and adaptive listening is really great, but the damn things will not stay in my ears no matter what tip I use or how I orient the things in my ear. Talking, chewing gum, and even just leaning my head back is enough to make the things fall out. I really wanted to like these things as I have terrible hearing, and the assistive hearing on these is already pretty nice, but they don't do me any good if they won't stay in my ears. I haven't had this issue with any other earbud I've ever owned. Do yourself a favor and try a pair out first before you buy, if you can. EDIT: I am very open to specific recommendations on 3rd-party eartips for these things.
maxglute 2y ago
Is this just saying commercial transparencey/pass through mode is getting clinical grade? I hope someone comes out with 12+ hour buds for all day "aid".
daft_pink 2y ago
There was a free app that I used to do this for my father before. Mimi hearing test. They are just bringing this same function to the device by default. Pretty sure you can do the entire thing with existing functionality on the existing airpods and iphone.
- unsnap_biceps 2y ago
  How did the mimi hearing test modify the AirPod's audio response? Was it system wide or just for that one app?
  - jerrysievert 2y ago
    I can't remember which app I used a few years ago, but there was a way to import the audio curves into the phone in settings.
    - nmarinov 2y ago
      Mimi hearing test app[1] works for that as it gives you an audiogram that you can import in Settings -> Accessibility -> Audio & Visual -> Headphone Accommodations -> Audiogram [1] - https://mimi.io/mimi-hearing-test-app https://mimi.io/mimi-hearing-test-app
      - hombre_fatal 2y ago
        I just downloaded and tried it for iPhone. Fwiw once you do the hearing test, on the app homepage you can sync to Apple Health and it sends over the audiogram.
  - daft_pink 2y ago
    Yes, essentially you attached the audiogram in accessibility as others have referenced. It’s systemwide and works across many different types of AirPods not just the airpods pro 2.
- lukasb 2y ago
  This is helpful even if you don't need a full-on hearing aid. My hearing is worse in the left ear than the right, so with headphones audio will sometimes sound panned right. The audiogram helps correct for that.
danielovichdk 2y ago
I do not own airpods so don't know about quality. But if a hardware company as great as Apple can build a hearing aid earpiece there are some companies that should be very worried. It's a huge industry.
- t0mas88 2y ago
  I'm on my 4th pair of airpods. Sound quality is good for such small in ears, convenience is amazing, but they don't last very long when used daily. They tend to break after about 1.5 year and the warranty is 1 year.
  - scosman 2y ago
    I still use my first gen pair bought on day 1. Got sick of waiting for them to die and finally bought Pros last month. Battery life has declined but still work great otherwise.
  - Shank 2y ago
    As others have mentioned, though hearing aids are a 4-digit item for many people. Even if you have to rebuy AirPods Pro regularly, you're still likely saving money. Granted, they may not work in all situations or all cases, but if they work for you it could still be a huge quality-of-life upgrade at a fraction of the cost.
  - killingtime74 2y ago
    Is it not advantageous to get AppleCare+ then?
    - Kerbonut 2y ago
      Even with AppleCare+, they refuse to replace them after so many times. Ask me how I know.
  - Spivak 2y ago
    My biggest gripe is that Apple went for aesthetics over functionality with the charging case. It's impossible to clean the tiny little charging contact far down and curved away from where a straight tool can fit, and when you put them in your case after working out the salt from your sweat corrodes the pins. If/when the next ones break I might just DIY a "sleeve" design with replaceable contacts.
desert_rue 2y ago
At $250, I could buy my dad three pairs to last him all day and still pay less than his current hearing aids.
- ugh123 2y ago
  Would insurance cover that? (honest question)
- vineyardmike 2y ago
  While not as cheap as AirPods, there have been a boom of low-cost hearing aids in the last few years. They are finally available OTC, so that has driven prices down. A quick search will yield a few in the $300-range, but tbh I’m not sure about quality. I really hope the FDA keeps expanding OTC access to health tech. Especially devices that don’t typically cause damage or carry much risk. My in-laws all have hearing problems (genetically?), and they said the prices are starting to reach the “keep a pair in the office, and a pair in the car” prices.
  - mbrameld 2y ago
    I hope so, too! They recently approved an OTC blood glucose monitor and it's been very eye-opening seeing how food and exercise affect blood glucose and then correlating how I feel with my blood glucose level. It's driving a lot of behavior change, and I would be a lot healthier now if I had access to it years ago.
    - belval 2y ago
      Are you referring to the Dexcom Stelo? I ordered mine recently, really excited about the idea of tracking glucose levels.
      - vineyardmike 2y ago
        I am also wearing a Stelo. Have fun with yours, but I'm a bit more reserved in my "reviews" of them. I think it's a cool product, but I've seen quite a bit of pseudo-science on the internet when people discuss them. You really have to grasp sometimes to connect glucose levels to "feelings". If you're a healthy adult without diabetes, there isn't a lot of research saying "X is bad/good", and the signal that people act on is not always reflective of evidence.
rllearneratwork 2y ago
One thing I love about Apple is that they are building products for what their leadership team actually needs/wants and uses themselves. This started with iPhone (e.g. what kind of smartphone do we want instead of all that blackberries?) and is very obvious with Apple Watch line. This is great and one of the reasons why their products offer genuinely best user experience.
- jerlam 2y ago
  It does explain why the Apple Watch tracks of lot of metrics mostly applicable to the elderly - Double Support Time, Walking Asymmetry, Walking Steadiness.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Does anyone know if there is a way to contact Apple and provide feedback/requests on accessibility / disability features?
- yreg 2y ago
  > To provide feedback, request an enhancement, or share your story about using the accessibility features of Apple products, send an email to our Accessibility Feedback Team: accessibility@apple.com
jeffnappi 2y ago
This is great! Hearing aids are stupidly expensive and I hope we see more solutions leveraging mass production to improve accessibility of hearing aid tech Another thing I'd love to see is affordable AR glasses with auto captioning for noisy environments with many speakers. My mother struggles with hearing loss, and it's apparent to me that audio-only solutions are not sufficient for many situations and types of hearing loss. There's a small company already working on auto-captioning, but the price point is currently $5k - https://www.xanderglasses.com/xanderglasses https://www.xanderglasses.com/xanderglasses
- ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
  Can Whisper differentiate / classify speakers? If so the easier thing would be a pad listening to the room
  - jeffnappi 2y ago
    The problem is that folks who are hard of hearing want to be part of the conversation and make eye contact. The transcripts in the audio recorder app on Pixel phones is quite good, though combining computer vision and audio processing is necessary for loud and complex social environments.
izacus 2y ago
Can someone with first hand experience explain how are hearing aids different from in-eat headphones with passthrough? What's the technical difference?
- gklitz 2y ago
  I’m not an expert by I have worked with a hearing aid producer, though not directly with the signal processing. Roughly the thing is that hearing loss doesn’t just mean that you have for instance 30% reduced volume on your hearing. So just naively amplifying all sound won’t help you that much. What you need is to measure the hearing loss at different frequencies and then amplify those frequencies in the input signal. Now thats a very crude simplification and a lot more complex signal processing goes into the actual products based on things like making the signal source more clear for people with high frequency loss, since many people suffering from hearing loss will have issues in crowded spaces or conversations with multiple people because it’s not at easy for them to “tune out” notices unrelated to the person they are listening to. Then of cause there a a bunch of things you can do to try to isolate typical “useful sounds” compare to environmental sounds. Hope that helps a little to explain the difference. This is also why you can’t really have a hearing impairment aid without doing the assessment which it sounds like Apple can now do with just the AirPods and an iPhone, because it’s never just “tuning up the volume”
  - izacus 2y ago
    It does explain a lot, thanks!
- barkingcat 2y ago
  personally, knowing about how apple product development works, I have very little expectations for apple branded hearing aids being any good. hearing aids are medical devices, not headphones with passthrough. The tolerances of safety and robustness alone are worlds apart. Think about it this way: if a pair of apple earpods break, you just buy another one. If my hearing aids break, there is a very high possibility of death and dismemberment leading to termination of my life. Also, I would never buy apple branded hearing aids except under the circumstances where Apple and the FDA come to agreement, contractually obligated by the US courts system, that if Apple decides to terminate that product line, that all information, patents, design schematics, and code are passed to a 2ndary company (it could be one of the current hearing aid manufacturers) for continued support. There can absolutely be no instance where apple can decide to "lay off the department" and "turn off the update servers" and leave the product unusable, for the lifetime of the patient. That's the real difference between hearing aids and headphones.
yreg 2y ago
One thing that's a shame regarding AirPods / AirPods Pro is that you cannot try them out at the store (for understandable hygienic reasons). I find it difficult to decide which ones to get or when to upgrade without trying them out.
- UI_at_80x24 2y ago
  See if you can find a .stl or mockup that can be 3d printed, and apply the 'test-tips' to that?
- liminalsunset 2y ago
  Unless they changed something, in Canada I was able to try the AirPods Pro and the Pro 2 in store. They sanitize them between customers (IMO, not very well) with alcohol wipes. You just go in and ask someone to try them out.
  - yreg 2y ago
    Ah, interesting, I might try again. Thanks.
- bluetidepro 2y ago
  It's annoying but nothing is stopping you from buying them, trying them on, and then returning them for a full refund a min later if you don't like them.
- okdood64 2y ago
  You could always return them within 14 days as well.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
gklitz 2y ago
This might end up having a huge impact on the entire field of treatment for hearing impairment. A big problem in the field is getting products to patients who could use them, but won’t because of stigma. This particularly true of young patients and unfortunately many might go even decades with a known hearing problem and still ignore it, and this can lead to social isolation and has a huge negative impact on their quality of life. Breaking the stigma of having hearing impairment might lead to these patients seeking out help much much sooner, and even if the AirPods aren’t perfect for everyone they might serve as an easy “on ramp” to getting traditional hearing aids for those who need them.
- SanjayMehta 2y ago
  Exactly this. People who have no problems wearing eyeglasses balk at hearing aids.
  - dmix 2y ago
    Not exactly easy to wear AirPods all the time. Especially in social situations and school But making it a standard headphone thing might make it normal
- pants2 2y ago
  Can you elaborate more on the stigma? From my perspective, if I were talking to someone with hearing aids I wouldn't give it a second thought (or I would try to speak more clearly). Talking to someone with Airpods in, I might assume they're listening to music and ignoring me.
  - nicoburns 2y ago
    > Can you elaborate more on the stigma? From my perspective, if I were talking to someone with hearing aids I wouldn't give it a second thought I think it's mostly perceived stigma (or self-stigma) rather than actual stigma from others, and partially a generational thing where there was more stigma in the past. Attitudes to sight correcting glasses have also massively changed in the last few decades.
ogbobbyjohnson 2y ago
[flagged]
liminalsunset 2y ago
The precursor to these features was the "Audio/AirPods Accessibility" settings as "Custom Transparency Mode"). When I last tried them, some settings seemed to process the audio in the "control plane" (as opposed to the regular transparency being "data plane"), leading to loss in quality or delay (compared to plain transparency mode). I remember hoping the 2nd gen AirPods Pro would solve this but I think it remained. For example I remember amplifying the sound appeared to introduce some kind of extra delay and quality reduction that wasn't there before. I no longer have an iPhone to try this out with but I do wonder if someone knows whether these new features are still subject to this limitation.
c2k 2y ago
related: if you want to test your hearing at home, then you can try this app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mimi-hearing-test/id932496645 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mimi-hearing-test/id932496645
skybrian 2y ago
Understanding people and listening to music are different problems. I have hearing aids and they’re better for understanding people (for one thing, the battery lasts longer), but they have no bass response, so I use Airpods for music. Your hearing aid prescription might not be what you want to use for listening to instrumental music. For me it bumps up the treble too much, making a piano sound like a toy piano. An equalizer seems like a better tool for music. I thought Apple’s built in hearing test was pretty good for that, though it would be nice to have more control over the EQ.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Has anyone else noticed that AirPods Pro’s noise cancellation doesn’t work if you have just one earbud in?
- RobMurray 2y ago
  There's a setting for that in the airpods settings under accessibility.
  - 93po 2y ago
    oh my god thank you for this
strongpigeon 2y ago
Thank the recent hearing aid deregulation for that. [0] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/health/fda-hearing-aids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/health/fda-hearing-aids.h...
- mimikatz 2y ago
  Yes, this is a clear example of how regulation was harming people (not all regulation is bad, but some of it is, usually the kind that gets between safe things and users)
  - culi 2y ago
    What do you call "regulation" vs "deregulation". This is technically a new rule that added a category of OTC called "hearing aids" and established guidelines for OTC hearing aids
    - monero-xmr 2y ago
      Yes we needed more regulation to let people buy things directly from sellers. What would we do without regulators
  - joshl32532 2y ago
    This. Those who have the money/insurance will still go through their doctor for expensive "prescription" hearing aids. Those low income ones can buy one off Amazon/Walmart which (though not the best) makes a huge difference than not having one.
  - ineedaj0b 2y ago
    next i hope for contact lenses to no longer require prescriptions
runnr_az 2y ago
They really are amazing. I've been wearing them to concerts to help with noise... work incredibly well. They're the only earbuds I've had that survived a full summer of sweaty running in the desert. Grumbling about having to pay $100 for a new case though, while I watch my old case (left on a trail in Sedona) wander around PHX.
esel2k 2y ago
People say the stigma on hearing aid. But what about the stigma for people feeling that it is inadequate to walk around with airpods and people thinking that this inappropriate / say impolite? If someone doesn’t know at least with hearing aid people will be respectful and try to speak clearly, which airpods - hard to tell the difference.
ValentineC 2y ago
As someone with potential auditory processing disorder [1], I sometimes need people to repeat themselves if I'm talking to them in a crowded place. I hope this feature helps me filter speech directed at me from background noise better. [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/auditory-processing-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20555261 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/auditory-proc...
- MBCook 2y ago
  AirPods Pro have had a feature that might help you for 3 years called Conversation Boost. https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/enable-conversation-boost-airpods-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/enable-conversation-boost-a...
tmaly 2y ago
This is brilliant! Good hearing aids are super expensive.
noname120 2y ago
I wish the AirPods Pro 2 had a feature to increase the volume of conversations while reducing the background noise. Something akin to the Sennheiser Conversation Clear Plus: https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/conversation-clear-plus/ https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/conversation-clea...
- allears 2y ago
  Supposedly there will be just such a feature with a new version of the software (firmware?) that will be out "in the fall."
- mikestew 2y ago
  I assume that the 2nd generation still has Conversation Boost: https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/enable-conversation-boost-airpods-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/enable-conversation-boost-a... Or are you referring to something different?
  - noname120 2y ago
    Looks great! Unfortunately I don't see the option anywhere in macOS with my AirPods Pro 2 connected. I guess it unfortunately can only be configured with an iPhone (and I don't have one).
    - mikestew 2y ago
      Wow, lame. I'm even seeing in the docs that it requires a device with iOS or iPadOS. :-P Sorry for the wild goose chase.
sirsinsalot 2y ago
Sennheiser was also bought out by a leading hearing aid manufacturer a few years back. This industry merge / consolidation goes beyond Apple.
93po 2y ago
extremely happy for this and have been wanting it for years. i think it's panasonic who has a product like this but it's like $700+ after tax. my hearing loss isn't bad enough to go get a hearing aid, it's not a problem 95% of the time. but maybe once a month im in a super loud restaurant for socially obligatory reasons and i cannot hear the conversation basically at all and it's a terrible mixture of feeling super bored and also self aware that i look unengaged and i'm bumming people out/making it weird. really happy for this considering i carry these with me 24/7 anyway and already own them
niij 2y ago
Does anyone know if these will have CROS functionality (single sided deafness)? Or are they solely same-side amplification?
arathis 2y ago
Hi. I work in this space. These don't replace hearing aids. The gap between needing hearing aids due to significant hearing vs degrading of hearing is about a period of 10 years. During this 10 years your hearing is sub-optimal but not necessarily bad enough for expensive hearing aids. Apple, like others, are not competing with Cochlear.
- sumedh 2y ago
  > Apple, like others, are not competing with Cochlear. I actually checked Cochlear's share price, there is no significant price change, so are right.
ksec 2y ago
This is going to be a stupid question. If I want a devices, so I could listen to what I said because my voice in my head when I speak is very different to the voice being projected from a mic to speaker. ( Assuming everyone hearing from the speaker will heard roughly the same ). Is that a hearing aid? If not what devices should I be looking for? Could AirPod be used like that ( without an iPhone ).
- plushugh 2y ago
  That would be what IEMs (In-Ear Monitors) and such are made to do, if you sing or deal with music production your stage would typically have stage monitoring systems that stream your voice from your microphone to your hearing device with low latency. Some desktop mics even comes with a headphones port for you to check the monitoring option in your audio software etc. for monitoring.
  - ksec 2y ago
    Thank You for the pointer. I will look into it.
- umbra07 2y ago
  you want sidetone. what's your use case? video conferencing from your laptop/desktop?
hermannj314 2y ago
I'm just concerned people won't like the feature where IRL merchants are muted if they don't agree to give Apple a 30% cut of revenue the airpods helped to facilitate.
pretzellogician 2y ago
As an Android-only person, what are the best options for mild hearing assistance? In particular, I'd like an "open ear" earbud that has Bluetooth support for music. (It sounds like Airpods 4 would fit the bill, with a new Active Noise Cancellation feature -- except they won't have Android support.)
MichaelDav 2y ago
[flagged]

281 points by janandonly 2y ago

minimaxir 2y ago

The keynote mentioned it's for H2 chips, meaning it should also work for the recently announced AirPods 4.

a_vanderbilt 2y ago
The additional segmentation of the regular AirPods is kind of confusing. Conceptually I know they sit between the base AirPods and the Pros, but am I paying more just for ANC?
- minimaxir 2y ago
  Yes, and wireless charging/better case. Will have to see the tech specs after the event but it's an interesting price segmentation strategy.
- jerlam 2y ago
  I am curious how well ANC will work without any kind of rubber tips to maintain seal.
  - a_vanderbilt 2y ago
    That was my first thought. I've used AirPod Pros and an expensive over-ear headset, and the headset was actually worse for ANC because of my sideburns/beard and glasses. Plane rides especially highlighted this, as the low-droning engine noise penetrated the weak ear seal easier. Perhaps the fancy acoustic feedback and ear topology modeling are going to alleviate this issue, but I'm not sure that it's going to resonate with consumers because it requires product knowledge. Give me decent ANC in the base model, and very good ANC in the Pros and it's immediately understandable what I am getting.
favorited 2y ago
They said it's in the process of FDA (and other agency) approval, which likely means the specific model is being validated for use as a medical device. If they only mentioned it for AirPods Pro 2, I wouldn't expect it on other devices.
- minimaxir 2y ago
  Fair, although they likely saved it for the AirPods Pro 2 segment since there's no new hardware unlike the other products.
- tedivm 2y ago
  Once you get one device approved it's easier to get others approved under one of the new fast track programs (or at least that's what my FDA consultant told me a couple of years ago, I'll admit I'm not personally an expert on this).
  - not_the_fda 2y ago
    Not exactly. A novel device has a higher bar to get clearance. If you are developing something that already exists i.e. a hearing aid then you can go the 510k route. Every model has to go through the same rigor with design controls and get clearance through the 510k process. There is a lot of process and documentation, and as a medical device you can't just update firmware and swap components as they go end of life. And you can't just discontinue a product. When you submit for approval you have to define the lifetime of the product and how you plan to support it through that lifetime. I imagine Apple will keep the AirPods Pro 2 around for about a decade as their hearing aid device.

nineplay 2y ago

I won't speak for everyone but my $1,500 hearing aides are terrible Bluetooth earbuds. Music streamed from my phone is full of static and I end up going back to my trusty wired headphones. If the AirPods work as hearing aides I'm never going back.

gedy 2y ago
Yeah I was very underwhelmed by sound quality of my not cheap hearing aids. Bose Hearphones and Airpod Pros were way better and much cheaper
kshacker 2y ago
Curious as a future patient. How long do the prescribed hearing aids lost? I don't know when the AirPods came but I have used only 2 generations and with a price tag of 200-250 odd, I don't mind replacing every 2-3 years, just trying to see comparison with the medical industry (whether we pay or the insurance pays)
- Retric 2y ago
  In the US clinical hearing aids cost 2,000 to 7000$ for a pair (half that if you need one) + whatever the audiologist charges. Like a lot of medical expenses you can drop that significantly with over the counter options available for under 1,000$. That said, hearing loss varies quite a bit and high end devices have meaningful benefits in terms of customization.
- desert_rue 2y ago
  My dad’s were in the 2k range and are expected to be good for about three years. Not that they don’t last longer- just that all the features like Bluetooth should last for three years.
LooseMarmoset 2y ago
I have a set of the Pro 2s. The noise cancellation and adaptive listening is really great, but the damn things will not stay in my ears no matter what tip I use or how I orient the things in my ear. Talking, chewing gum, and even just leaning my head back is enough to make the things fall out. I really wanted to like these things as I have terrible hearing, and the assistive hearing on these is already pretty nice, but they don't do me any good if they won't stay in my ears. I haven't had this issue with any other earbud I've ever owned. Do yourself a favor and try a pair out first before you buy, if you can. EDIT: I am very open to specific recommendations on 3rd-party eartips for these things.

maxglute 2y ago

Is this just saying commercial transparencey/pass through mode is getting clinical grade? I hope someone comes out with 12+ hour buds for all day "aid".

daft_pink 2y ago

There was a free app that I used to do this for my father before. Mimi hearing test. They are just bringing this same function to the device by default. Pretty sure you can do the entire thing with existing functionality on the existing airpods and iphone.

unsnap_biceps 2y ago
How did the mimi hearing test modify the AirPod's audio response? Was it system wide or just for that one app?
- jerrysievert 2y ago
  I can't remember which app I used a few years ago, but there was a way to import the audio curves into the phone in settings.
  - nmarinov 2y ago
    Mimi hearing test app[1] works for that as it gives you an audiogram that you can import in Settings -> Accessibility -> Audio & Visual -> Headphone Accommodations -> Audiogram [1] - https://mimi.io/mimi-hearing-test-app https://mimi.io/mimi-hearing-test-app
    - hombre_fatal 2y ago
      I just downloaded and tried it for iPhone. Fwiw once you do the hearing test, on the app homepage you can sync to Apple Health and it sends over the audiogram.
- daft_pink 2y ago
  Yes, essentially you attached the audiogram in accessibility as others have referenced. It’s systemwide and works across many different types of AirPods not just the airpods pro 2.
lukasb 2y ago
This is helpful even if you don't need a full-on hearing aid. My hearing is worse in the left ear than the right, so with headphones audio will sometimes sound panned right. The audiogram helps correct for that.

danielovichdk 2y ago

I do not own airpods so don't know about quality. But if a hardware company as great as Apple can build a hearing aid earpiece there are some companies that should be very worried. It's a huge industry.

t0mas88 2y ago
I'm on my 4th pair of airpods. Sound quality is good for such small in ears, convenience is amazing, but they don't last very long when used daily. They tend to break after about 1.5 year and the warranty is 1 year.
- scosman 2y ago
  I still use my first gen pair bought on day 1. Got sick of waiting for them to die and finally bought Pros last month. Battery life has declined but still work great otherwise.
- Shank 2y ago
  As others have mentioned, though hearing aids are a 4-digit item for many people. Even if you have to rebuy AirPods Pro regularly, you're still likely saving money. Granted, they may not work in all situations or all cases, but if they work for you it could still be a huge quality-of-life upgrade at a fraction of the cost.
- killingtime74 2y ago
  Is it not advantageous to get AppleCare+ then?
  - Kerbonut 2y ago
    Even with AppleCare+, they refuse to replace them after so many times. Ask me how I know.
- Spivak 2y ago
  My biggest gripe is that Apple went for aesthetics over functionality with the charging case. It's impossible to clean the tiny little charging contact far down and curved away from where a straight tool can fit, and when you put them in your case after working out the salt from your sweat corrodes the pins. If/when the next ones break I might just DIY a "sleeve" design with replaceable contacts.

desert_rue 2y ago

At $250, I could buy my dad three pairs to last him all day and still pay less than his current hearing aids.

ugh123 2y ago
Would insurance cover that? (honest question)
vineyardmike 2y ago
While not as cheap as AirPods, there have been a boom of low-cost hearing aids in the last few years. They are finally available OTC, so that has driven prices down. A quick search will yield a few in the $300-range, but tbh I’m not sure about quality. I really hope the FDA keeps expanding OTC access to health tech. Especially devices that don’t typically cause damage or carry much risk. My in-laws all have hearing problems (genetically?), and they said the prices are starting to reach the “keep a pair in the office, and a pair in the car” prices.
- mbrameld 2y ago
  I hope so, too! They recently approved an OTC blood glucose monitor and it's been very eye-opening seeing how food and exercise affect blood glucose and then correlating how I feel with my blood glucose level. It's driving a lot of behavior change, and I would be a lot healthier now if I had access to it years ago.
  - belval 2y ago
    Are you referring to the Dexcom Stelo? I ordered mine recently, really excited about the idea of tracking glucose levels.
    - vineyardmike 2y ago
      I am also wearing a Stelo. Have fun with yours, but I'm a bit more reserved in my "reviews" of them. I think it's a cool product, but I've seen quite a bit of pseudo-science on the internet when people discuss them. You really have to grasp sometimes to connect glucose levels to "feelings". If you're a healthy adult without diabetes, there isn't a lot of research saying "X is bad/good", and the signal that people act on is not always reflective of evidence.

rllearneratwork 2y ago

One thing I love about Apple is that they are building products for what their leadership team actually needs/wants and uses themselves. This started with iPhone (e.g. what kind of smartphone do we want instead of all that blackberries?) and is very obvious with Apple Watch line. This is great and one of the reasons why their products offer genuinely best user experience.

jerlam 2y ago
It does explain why the Apple Watch tracks of lot of metrics mostly applicable to the elderly - Double Support Time, Walking Asymmetry, Walking Steadiness.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Does anyone know if there is a way to contact Apple and provide feedback/requests on accessibility / disability features?

yreg 2y ago
> To provide feedback, request an enhancement, or share your story about using the accessibility features of Apple products, send an email to our Accessibility Feedback Team: accessibility@apple.com

jeffnappi 2y ago

This is great! Hearing aids are stupidly expensive and I hope we see more solutions leveraging mass production to improve accessibility of hearing aid tech Another thing I'd love to see is affordable AR glasses with auto captioning for noisy environments with many speakers. My mother struggles with hearing loss, and it's apparent to me that audio-only solutions are not sufficient for many situations and types of hearing loss. There's a small company already working on auto-captioning, but the price point is currently $5k - https://www.xanderglasses.com/xanderglasses https://www.xanderglasses.com/xanderglasses

ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
Can Whisper differentiate / classify speakers? If so the easier thing would be a pad listening to the room
- jeffnappi 2y ago
  The problem is that folks who are hard of hearing want to be part of the conversation and make eye contact. The transcripts in the audio recorder app on Pixel phones is quite good, though combining computer vision and audio processing is necessary for loud and complex social environments.

izacus 2y ago

Can someone with first hand experience explain how are hearing aids different from in-eat headphones with passthrough? What's the technical difference?

gklitz 2y ago
I’m not an expert by I have worked with a hearing aid producer, though not directly with the signal processing. Roughly the thing is that hearing loss doesn’t just mean that you have for instance 30% reduced volume on your hearing. So just naively amplifying all sound won’t help you that much. What you need is to measure the hearing loss at different frequencies and then amplify those frequencies in the input signal. Now thats a very crude simplification and a lot more complex signal processing goes into the actual products based on things like making the signal source more clear for people with high frequency loss, since many people suffering from hearing loss will have issues in crowded spaces or conversations with multiple people because it’s not at easy for them to “tune out” notices unrelated to the person they are listening to. Then of cause there a a bunch of things you can do to try to isolate typical “useful sounds” compare to environmental sounds. Hope that helps a little to explain the difference. This is also why you can’t really have a hearing impairment aid without doing the assessment which it sounds like Apple can now do with just the AirPods and an iPhone, because it’s never just “tuning up the volume”
- izacus 2y ago
  It does explain a lot, thanks!
barkingcat 2y ago
personally, knowing about how apple product development works, I have very little expectations for apple branded hearing aids being any good. hearing aids are medical devices, not headphones with passthrough. The tolerances of safety and robustness alone are worlds apart. Think about it this way: if a pair of apple earpods break, you just buy another one. If my hearing aids break, there is a very high possibility of death and dismemberment leading to termination of my life. Also, I would never buy apple branded hearing aids except under the circumstances where Apple and the FDA come to agreement, contractually obligated by the US courts system, that if Apple decides to terminate that product line, that all information, patents, design schematics, and code are passed to a 2ndary company (it could be one of the current hearing aid manufacturers) for continued support. There can absolutely be no instance where apple can decide to "lay off the department" and "turn off the update servers" and leave the product unusable, for the lifetime of the patient. That's the real difference between hearing aids and headphones.

yreg 2y ago

One thing that's a shame regarding AirPods / AirPods Pro is that you cannot try them out at the store (for understandable hygienic reasons). I find it difficult to decide which ones to get or when to upgrade without trying them out.

UI_at_80x24 2y ago
See if you can find a .stl or mockup that can be 3d printed, and apply the 'test-tips' to that?
liminalsunset 2y ago
Unless they changed something, in Canada I was able to try the AirPods Pro and the Pro 2 in store. They sanitize them between customers (IMO, not very well) with alcohol wipes. You just go in and ask someone to try them out.
- yreg 2y ago
  Ah, interesting, I might try again. Thanks.
bluetidepro 2y ago
It's annoying but nothing is stopping you from buying them, trying them on, and then returning them for a full refund a min later if you don't like them.
okdood64 2y ago
You could always return them within 14 days as well.

deleted 2y ago

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gklitz 2y ago

This might end up having a huge impact on the entire field of treatment for hearing impairment. A big problem in the field is getting products to patients who could use them, but won’t because of stigma. This particularly true of young patients and unfortunately many might go even decades with a known hearing problem and still ignore it, and this can lead to social isolation and has a huge negative impact on their quality of life. Breaking the stigma of having hearing impairment might lead to these patients seeking out help much much sooner, and even if the AirPods aren’t perfect for everyone they might serve as an easy “on ramp” to getting traditional hearing aids for those who need them.

SanjayMehta 2y ago
Exactly this. People who have no problems wearing eyeglasses balk at hearing aids.
- dmix 2y ago
  Not exactly easy to wear AirPods all the time. Especially in social situations and school But making it a standard headphone thing might make it normal
pants2 2y ago
Can you elaborate more on the stigma? From my perspective, if I were talking to someone with hearing aids I wouldn't give it a second thought (or I would try to speak more clearly). Talking to someone with Airpods in, I might assume they're listening to music and ignoring me.
- nicoburns 2y ago
  > Can you elaborate more on the stigma? From my perspective, if I were talking to someone with hearing aids I wouldn't give it a second thought I think it's mostly perceived stigma (or self-stigma) rather than actual stigma from others, and partially a generational thing where there was more stigma in the past. Attitudes to sight correcting glasses have also massively changed in the last few decades.

ogbobbyjohnson 2y ago

[flagged]

liminalsunset 2y ago

The precursor to these features was the "Audio/AirPods Accessibility" settings as "Custom Transparency Mode"). When I last tried them, some settings seemed to process the audio in the "control plane" (as opposed to the regular transparency being "data plane"), leading to loss in quality or delay (compared to plain transparency mode). I remember hoping the 2nd gen AirPods Pro would solve this but I think it remained. For example I remember amplifying the sound appeared to introduce some kind of extra delay and quality reduction that wasn't there before. I no longer have an iPhone to try this out with but I do wonder if someone knows whether these new features are still subject to this limitation.

c2k 2y ago

related: if you want to test your hearing at home, then you can try this app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mimi-hearing-test/id932496645 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mimi-hearing-test/id932496645

skybrian 2y ago

Understanding people and listening to music are different problems. I have hearing aids and they’re better for understanding people (for one thing, the battery lasts longer), but they have no bass response, so I use Airpods for music. Your hearing aid prescription might not be what you want to use for listening to instrumental music. For me it bumps up the treble too much, making a piano sound like a toy piano. An equalizer seems like a better tool for music. I thought Apple’s built in hearing test was pretty good for that, though it would be nice to have more control over the EQ.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Has anyone else noticed that AirPods Pro’s noise cancellation doesn’t work if you have just one earbud in?

RobMurray 2y ago
There's a setting for that in the airpods settings under accessibility.
- 93po 2y ago
  oh my god thank you for this

strongpigeon 2y ago

Thank the recent hearing aid deregulation for that. [0] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/health/fda-hearing-aids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/health/fda-hearing-aids.h...

mimikatz 2y ago
Yes, this is a clear example of how regulation was harming people (not all regulation is bad, but some of it is, usually the kind that gets between safe things and users)
- culi 2y ago
  What do you call "regulation" vs "deregulation". This is technically a new rule that added a category of OTC called "hearing aids" and established guidelines for OTC hearing aids
  - monero-xmr 2y ago
    Yes we needed more regulation to let people buy things directly from sellers. What would we do without regulators
- joshl32532 2y ago
  This. Those who have the money/insurance will still go through their doctor for expensive "prescription" hearing aids. Those low income ones can buy one off Amazon/Walmart which (though not the best) makes a huge difference than not having one.
- ineedaj0b 2y ago
  next i hope for contact lenses to no longer require prescriptions

runnr_az 2y ago

They really are amazing. I've been wearing them to concerts to help with noise... work incredibly well. They're the only earbuds I've had that survived a full summer of sweaty running in the desert. Grumbling about having to pay $100 for a new case though, while I watch my old case (left on a trail in Sedona) wander around PHX.

esel2k 2y ago

People say the stigma on hearing aid. But what about the stigma for people feeling that it is inadequate to walk around with airpods and people thinking that this inappropriate / say impolite? If someone doesn’t know at least with hearing aid people will be respectful and try to speak clearly, which airpods - hard to tell the difference.

ValentineC 2y ago

As someone with potential auditory processing disorder [1], I sometimes need people to repeat themselves if I'm talking to them in a crowded place. I hope this feature helps me filter speech directed at me from background noise better. [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/auditory-processing-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20555261 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/auditory-proc...

MBCook 2y ago
AirPods Pro have had a feature that might help you for 3 years called Conversation Boost. https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/enable-conversation-boost-airpods-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/enable-conversation-boost-a...

tmaly 2y ago

This is brilliant! Good hearing aids are super expensive.

noname120 2y ago

I wish the AirPods Pro 2 had a feature to increase the volume of conversations while reducing the background noise. Something akin to the Sennheiser Conversation Clear Plus: https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/conversation-clear-plus/ https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-US/p/conversation-clea...

allears 2y ago
Supposedly there will be just such a feature with a new version of the software (firmware?) that will be out "in the fall."
mikestew 2y ago
I assume that the 2nd generation still has Conversation Boost: https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/enable-conversation-boost-airpods-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/enable-conversation-boost-a... Or are you referring to something different?
- noname120 2y ago
  Looks great! Unfortunately I don't see the option anywhere in macOS with my AirPods Pro 2 connected. I guess it unfortunately can only be configured with an iPhone (and I don't have one).
  - mikestew 2y ago
    Wow, lame. I'm even seeing in the docs that it requires a device with iOS or iPadOS. :-P Sorry for the wild goose chase.

sirsinsalot 2y ago

Sennheiser was also bought out by a leading hearing aid manufacturer a few years back. This industry merge / consolidation goes beyond Apple.

93po 2y ago

extremely happy for this and have been wanting it for years. i think it's panasonic who has a product like this but it's like $700+ after tax. my hearing loss isn't bad enough to go get a hearing aid, it's not a problem 95% of the time. but maybe once a month im in a super loud restaurant for socially obligatory reasons and i cannot hear the conversation basically at all and it's a terrible mixture of feeling super bored and also self aware that i look unengaged and i'm bumming people out/making it weird. really happy for this considering i carry these with me 24/7 anyway and already own them

niij 2y ago

Does anyone know if these will have CROS functionality (single sided deafness)? Or are they solely same-side amplification?

arathis 2y ago

Hi. I work in this space. These don't replace hearing aids. The gap between needing hearing aids due to significant hearing vs degrading of hearing is about a period of 10 years. During this 10 years your hearing is sub-optimal but not necessarily bad enough for expensive hearing aids. Apple, like others, are not competing with Cochlear.

sumedh 2y ago
> Apple, like others, are not competing with Cochlear. I actually checked Cochlear's share price, there is no significant price change, so are right.

ksec 2y ago

This is going to be a stupid question. If I want a devices, so I could listen to what I said because my voice in my head when I speak is very different to the voice being projected from a mic to speaker. ( Assuming everyone hearing from the speaker will heard roughly the same ). Is that a hearing aid? If not what devices should I be looking for? Could AirPod be used like that ( without an iPhone ).

plushugh 2y ago
That would be what IEMs (In-Ear Monitors) and such are made to do, if you sing or deal with music production your stage would typically have stage monitoring systems that stream your voice from your microphone to your hearing device with low latency. Some desktop mics even comes with a headphones port for you to check the monitoring option in your audio software etc. for monitoring.
- ksec 2y ago
  Thank You for the pointer. I will look into it.
umbra07 2y ago
you want sidetone. what's your use case? video conferencing from your laptop/desktop?

hermannj314 2y ago

I'm just concerned people won't like the feature where IRL merchants are muted if they don't agree to give Apple a 30% cut of revenue the airpods helped to facilitate.

pretzellogician 2y ago

As an Android-only person, what are the best options for mild hearing assistance? In particular, I'd like an "open ear" earbud that has Bluetooth support for music. (It sounds like Airpods 4 would fit the bill, with a new Active Noise Cancellation feature -- except they won't have Android support.)

MichaelDav 2y ago

[flagged]