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Yeah, lead is never good news because there is no level of exposure that isn't considered unhealthy. To quote the above wiki page: > hybrid perovskites are ver

Yeah, lead is never good news because there is no level of exposure that isn't considered unhealthy. To quote the above wiki page: > hybrid perovskites are very unstable and easily degrade to rather soluble compounds [...], which significantly increases their potential bioavailability and hazard for human health Even if we're super careful about how we install and interact with substances like these ourselves, once we put it in our living environment it's going to come back to us the long way around through the food chain. From the main wiki article on lead [0]: > Lead has no confirmed biological role, and there is no confirmed safe level of lead exposure. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead#Biological_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead#Biological_effects

Scaevolus 2y ago
I'd rather use 20% more land than revisit the "woops, lead everywhere thanks to energy" of the 20th century.
- naasking 2y ago
  The lead is contained within a solid panel, it's not like we're burning in our gasoline that pumps it into the air. As long as the panels are recycled I don't see the issue.
  - MisterTea 2y ago
    These panels will be used in utility scale projects which might be in areas prone to freak hail storms. Such a storm could pulverize the panels and the melting hail or rain could wash the leaded debris onto the ground below it. That can eventually make its way into the water table. Damaged panels in the rain/snow can have the same effect. Another scenario are hybrid farms where runoff from leaking or damaged panels could make its way directly into the food chain. Fires will melt and destroy panels and enable the lead to enter the ground and air. You also assumes every panel will be properly recycled and seeing how much illegal dumping exists to save a dollar I have little hope of a completely closed system. So yeah, I see issues.
- digging 2y ago
  > I'd rather use 20% more land This could actually be a pretty massive issue in theory on its own, though. We really need to be covering/converting parking spaces and reusing existing land waste.
  - kwhitefoot 2y ago
    I've been told that in France large car parks have to have covered areas with solar panels on top.
- coldpie 2y ago
  > revisit the "woops, lead everywhere thanks to energy" of the 20th century That seeeeems unlikely to me. We know the dangers of lead now, and it is treated much more carefully. It's absolutely good to be aware of, but I don't think we're going to make the same mistake. Also worth considering that coal & garbage-fueled plants output lead directly into the atmosphere[1], so if these help take coal plants offline, it's still a gain even if they aren't perfect. [1] https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/abs/10.1289/isee.2021.P-143 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/abs/10.1289/isee.2021.P-143
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    We knew the dangers of lead when we put it into gasoline. We let industry leaders gaslight us into thinking it wasn't something to worry about.
    - robocat 2y ago
      No need to blame faceless corporations. The inventor was famously complacent about it. Facing a crowd of journalists, inventor Thomas Midgley Jr. poured a lead additive over his hands and then proceeded to inhale its fumes for about a minute. Unfazed, he said, “I could do this every day without getting any health problems whatsoever.” Soon afterward, Midgley needed medical treatment.
  - zardo 2y ago
    > We know the dangers of lead now, and it is treated much more carefully. Like we don't cover our roofs with solar panels made from lead crystals.
marcosdumay 2y ago
Not all perovskite cells use lead, and there's nothing about the composition of those panels on the article.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  > Not all perovskite cells use lead, and there's nothing about the composition of those panels on the article. That does not mean we should dismiss the issue.
dghughes 2y ago
>lead is never good news because there is no level of exposure that isn't considered unhealthy. Brass has lead in it. That's a lot of doorknobs, faucets, and zippers touched every day.
- coryrc 2y ago
  "Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass Plumbing brass has traditionally contained high levels of lead, but it's not supposed to anymore, except for things intended for non-drinking-water purposes, which unfortunately includes outdoor water spigots. I wouldn't be shocked in doorknobs had lead in them beyond trace amounts, but it isn't guaranteed.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  Not sure what you mean. That it's okay to be exposed to lead because it exists in existing objects?

Scaevolus 2y ago

I'd rather use 20% more land than revisit the "woops, lead everywhere thanks to energy" of the 20th century.

naasking 2y ago
The lead is contained within a solid panel, it's not like we're burning in our gasoline that pumps it into the air. As long as the panels are recycled I don't see the issue.
- MisterTea 2y ago
  These panels will be used in utility scale projects which might be in areas prone to freak hail storms. Such a storm could pulverize the panels and the melting hail or rain could wash the leaded debris onto the ground below it. That can eventually make its way into the water table. Damaged panels in the rain/snow can have the same effect. Another scenario are hybrid farms where runoff from leaking or damaged panels could make its way directly into the food chain. Fires will melt and destroy panels and enable the lead to enter the ground and air. You also assumes every panel will be properly recycled and seeing how much illegal dumping exists to save a dollar I have little hope of a completely closed system. So yeah, I see issues.
digging 2y ago
> I'd rather use 20% more land This could actually be a pretty massive issue in theory on its own, though. We really need to be covering/converting parking spaces and reusing existing land waste.
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  I've been told that in France large car parks have to have covered areas with solar panels on top.
coldpie 2y ago
> revisit the "woops, lead everywhere thanks to energy" of the 20th century That seeeeems unlikely to me. We know the dangers of lead now, and it is treated much more carefully. It's absolutely good to be aware of, but I don't think we're going to make the same mistake. Also worth considering that coal & garbage-fueled plants output lead directly into the atmosphere[1], so if these help take coal plants offline, it's still a gain even if they aren't perfect. [1] https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/abs/10.1289/isee.2021.P-143 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/abs/10.1289/isee.2021.P-143
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  We knew the dangers of lead when we put it into gasoline. We let industry leaders gaslight us into thinking it wasn't something to worry about.
  - robocat 2y ago
    No need to blame faceless corporations. The inventor was famously complacent about it. Facing a crowd of journalists, inventor Thomas Midgley Jr. poured a lead additive over his hands and then proceeded to inhale its fumes for about a minute. Unfazed, he said, “I could do this every day without getting any health problems whatsoever.” Soon afterward, Midgley needed medical treatment.
- zardo 2y ago
  > We know the dangers of lead now, and it is treated much more carefully. Like we don't cover our roofs with solar panels made from lead crystals.

marcosdumay 2y ago

Not all perovskite cells use lead, and there's nothing about the composition of those panels on the article.

MisterTea 2y ago
> Not all perovskite cells use lead, and there's nothing about the composition of those panels on the article. That does not mean we should dismiss the issue.

dghughes 2y ago

>lead is never good news because there is no level of exposure that isn't considered unhealthy. Brass has lead in it. That's a lot of doorknobs, faucets, and zippers touched every day.

coryrc 2y ago
"Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass Plumbing brass has traditionally contained high levels of lead, but it's not supposed to anymore, except for things intended for non-drinking-water purposes, which unfortunately includes outdoor water spigots. I wouldn't be shocked in doorknobs had lead in them beyond trace amounts, but it isn't guaranteed.
MisterTea 2y ago
Not sure what you mean. That it's okay to be exposed to lead because it exists in existing objects?