4 ms·

is 30 times faster Faster than what? It turns out this is about the very first charge after assembly of the cell, not regular use. However, I doubt that this

is 30 times faster Faster than what? It turns out this is about the very first charge after assembly of the cell, not regular use. However, I doubt that this finding will be used much, except perhaps in applications like aerospace; it is in manufacturer's economic interests that their products have short lives. Edit: looks like as usual, comments that expose the truth get buried ;-)

thesh4d0w 2y ago
Just 2 paragraphs down, it's very clearly explained: > giving batteries this first charge at unusually high currents increased their average lifespan by 50% while decreasing the initial charging time from 10 hours to just 20 minutes.
- markdown 2y ago
  > decreasing the initial charging time from 10 hours to just 20 minutes That's insane
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    The amount of time it takes to charge a battery is inversely proportional to the current - there is nothing surprising about the fact that using more current charges a battery in less time. What is surprising about this research is that one small process change (doing that initial charge with a high current instead of a low one) resulted in a 50% increase in the total lifetime of the battery. That's the part that feels like "free money" in that, if accurate, this means battery producers could produce batteries with much longer lifespans without any fundamental change to their battery architecture or chemistry.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      IT is free money in another way for manufactures as well: since they battery doesn't have to sit in their factory/fixtures for as long getting that initial charge there is a lot less in process batteries in their factory, less charging fixtures and jigs to buy... This process savings is often invisible until an accountant looks close and then they discover it is massive.
      - markdown 2y ago
        Yup, batteries can leave the production line and be put into storage for distribution an entire shift earlier.
        regularfry 2y ago
        If you've got your widget rolling off the production line once every 90 seconds, you only need 14 chargers to have the charging done just in time on the line itself, eliminating the "storage for distribution" step entirely.
        bluGill 2y ago
        That sounds like a minor details, but accountants keep poking at that and discovering that extra steps like that are cost a lot of money. I'm guess tens of millions more $$$ which either goes to more profit or lowering prices - either is good (profit because I may be an investor, lower prices for customers)
- hnuser123456 2y ago
  And it's possible the benefit isn't nearly as big if you don't normally take 10 hours to fully charge a battery. It was just previously assumed that slower was always better.
- userbinator 2y ago
  Yes, but it still makes no sense in the title. Comparatives need a point of reference.
Panzer04 2y ago
In what way is it in the MFG interest? They don't exist in a vacuum, and batteries are a commodity market. Cheap ways to improve their product seem like an easy win to me. Demand for batteries is virtually insatiable. The only constraint is the price, and a better quality product can command a higher price.
- topspin 2y ago
  > and batteries are a commodity market. That's not true for passenger vehicles, particularly for high-spec products sold in the West. Integration of components such a battery cells that have many critical performance parameters is not trivial and manufacturers are not free to substitute cells from commodity markets. EV manufacturers are either making their own battery cells to their own, proprietary standards, or they secure contracts with suppliers capable of making cells with consistent performance. Any change in cell characteristics, including supposed improvements such as the one appearing in this report, must be integrated by the manufacturer and supply must be assured. It's not really a commodity market, despite appearances and hype.
  - imtringued 2y ago
    In house production makes it even easier, because you are in control of the process and don't have to wait for vendors to update their process.
    - topspin 2y ago
      Absolutely. My point being we're not actually dealing with commodities. In house production is about as far away from "commodity" as one can get.

thesh4d0w 2y ago

Just 2 paragraphs down, it's very clearly explained: > giving batteries this first charge at unusually high currents increased their average lifespan by 50% while decreasing the initial charging time from 10 hours to just 20 minutes.

markdown 2y ago
> decreasing the initial charging time from 10 hours to just 20 minutes That's insane
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  The amount of time it takes to charge a battery is inversely proportional to the current - there is nothing surprising about the fact that using more current charges a battery in less time. What is surprising about this research is that one small process change (doing that initial charge with a high current instead of a low one) resulted in a 50% increase in the total lifetime of the battery. That's the part that feels like "free money" in that, if accurate, this means battery producers could produce batteries with much longer lifespans without any fundamental change to their battery architecture or chemistry.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    IT is free money in another way for manufactures as well: since they battery doesn't have to sit in their factory/fixtures for as long getting that initial charge there is a lot less in process batteries in their factory, less charging fixtures and jigs to buy... This process savings is often invisible until an accountant looks close and then they discover it is massive.
    - markdown 2y ago
      Yup, batteries can leave the production line and be put into storage for distribution an entire shift earlier.
      - regularfry 2y ago
        If you've got your widget rolling off the production line once every 90 seconds, you only need 14 chargers to have the charging done just in time on the line itself, eliminating the "storage for distribution" step entirely.
      - bluGill 2y ago
        That sounds like a minor details, but accountants keep poking at that and discovering that extra steps like that are cost a lot of money. I'm guess tens of millions more $$$ which either goes to more profit or lowering prices - either is good (profit because I may be an investor, lower prices for customers)
hnuser123456 2y ago
And it's possible the benefit isn't nearly as big if you don't normally take 10 hours to fully charge a battery. It was just previously assumed that slower was always better.
userbinator 2y ago
Yes, but it still makes no sense in the title. Comparatives need a point of reference.

Panzer04 2y ago

In what way is it in the MFG interest? They don't exist in a vacuum, and batteries are a commodity market. Cheap ways to improve their product seem like an easy win to me. Demand for batteries is virtually insatiable. The only constraint is the price, and a better quality product can command a higher price.

topspin 2y ago
> and batteries are a commodity market. That's not true for passenger vehicles, particularly for high-spec products sold in the West. Integration of components such a battery cells that have many critical performance parameters is not trivial and manufacturers are not free to substitute cells from commodity markets. EV manufacturers are either making their own battery cells to their own, proprietary standards, or they secure contracts with suppliers capable of making cells with consistent performance. Any change in cell characteristics, including supposed improvements such as the one appearing in this report, must be integrated by the manufacturer and supply must be assured. It's not really a commodity market, despite appearances and hype.
- imtringued 2y ago
  In house production makes it even easier, because you are in control of the process and don't have to wait for vendors to update their process.
  - topspin 2y ago
    Absolutely. My point being we're not actually dealing with commodities. In house production is about as far away from "commodity" as one can get.