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How much of this is because it’s a bad future, and how much of this is because in any future with super-powerful artificial intelligences the upside for human a
by matthewdgreen 2y ago
How much of this is because it’s a bad future, and how much of this is because in any future with super-powerful artificial intelligences the upside for human achievement is going to be capped? Or to put it differently: would you rather live in the Culture or in one of the alternative societies it explores (some within the Culture itself) where they opt for fewer comforts, but more primitive violence and warfare —- knowing at the end of the day, you’re still never going to have mastery of the universe?
- jaggederest 2y ago> knowing at the end of the day, you’re still never going to have mastery of the universe? Why is that assumption implicit? I can imagine a world in which humans and superhuman intelligences work together to achieve great beauty and creativity. The necessity for dominance and superiority is a present day human trait, not one that will necessarily be embedded in whatever comes around as the next order of magnitude. Who is to say that they won't be playful partners in the dance of creation?
- whimsicalism 2y agoreally? current-day anatomically humans and superhuman AI “working together” in the future seems naïve. what would humans contribute?
- ben_w 2y agoEven just building a silicon duplicate of a human brain, one transistor per synapse and with current technology*, the silicon copy would cognitively outpace the organic original by about the same ratio to which we ourselves outpace continental drift while walking. * 2017 tech, albeit at great expense because half a quadrillion transistors is expensive to build and to run
- jaggederest 2y agoYes, of course, but would they be different in a way that goes beyond "merely faster"? I think the qualitative differences are more interesting than the quantitative ones. For example, I can easily picture superhuman intelligences that have neither the patience nor interest in the kinds of things that humans are interested in, except in so far as the humans ask politely. A creature like that could create fabulous works of art in the human mode, but would have no desire to do so besides sublimating the desire of the humans around.
- geysersam 2y agoWho knows. Depends on. The Devil is in the details. Is it really unthinkable? What if future AIs are not omnipotent, but bounded by some to us right now unknown limitations. Just like us, but differently limited. Maybe they appreciate our relative limitlessness just as we do theirs.
- whimsicalism 2y agoit is unthinkable to me, frankly
- geysersam 2y agoI'm curious. What assumptions about the nature of the human mind and the nature of future superintelligence lead you to that conclusion?
- jaggederest 2y agoWhy do you assume that what we call humans in the future will be current-day anatomically human? I assume, for example, the ability to run versions of yourself virtually and merge the state vectors at will. Special purpose vehicles designed for certain tasks. Wild genetic, cybernetic, and nanotech experimentation. I'm talking about fundamentally novel superhuman intelligences working with someone who has spent a few millennia exploring what it means to truly be themselves.
- whimsicalism 2y agoI am not assuming that, I am just stating the view I believe is indefensible. Yours is fine, by contrast
- jaggederest 2y agoHere's an analogy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6T6suvnhco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6T6suvnhco
- jimbokun 2y agoThat’s like you and your cat collaborating on writing a great novel.
- GeoAtreides 2y agoNo, it's not, cats are not sapient. Sapient-sapient relationships are different than sapient-sentient relationships.
- jaggederest 2y agoWhy are cats not sapient, and for how long will they be non-sapient? What do you think the likelihood that we will uplift cats to sapience is? Is it zero? Ten thousand years is a long time.
- jhbadger 2y agoI like David Brin's novels where humans uplift various primates and cetaceans. Do many other authors do that? It seems uncommon as compared to AI-driven futures.
- jaggederest 2y agoI'm rereading that series lately actually, there have been a few others who riffed on the concept but none as in depth sadly. The best I've read recently were Adrian Tchaikovsky's books, all quite excellent and fairly centered around uplift.
- whimsicalism 2y agothe obvious other recommendation is Adrian Tchaikovsky’s books
- hoseja 2y agoFrom Minds' perspective, you are less sapient than a cat is from human one.
- geysersam 2y ago
- saati 2y agoIt's not the future, the Culture aren't humans.