4 ms·

I would disagree that gnome has terrible usability. It has a very good one. Nobody's saying it is perfect, but I and many other people can use it without issues

I would disagree that gnome has terrible usability. It has a very good one. Nobody's saying it is perfect, but I and many other people can use it without issues. KDE has more features, so maybe *some* things are a bit easier. But everything else is way worse. Including lack of certain apps like a decent VM manager. I feel sorry for kde, the community there is way friendlier and whatnot, but this Frankenstein approach is bad for serious use. Somebody defined a compromise like a solution which nobody is happy with and KDE feels exactly like that. People adjust how it looks and feels for that reason. They feel overly bureaucratic and and embodiment of this https://xkcd.com/1172/ https://xkcd.com/1172/

IshKebab 2y ago
Gnome has a VM manager? I mean I feel like that's such a niche tool that doesn't need to be part of the desktop environment, unlike for example WiFi settings which Gnome provides a very very basic interface for but most of the options are hidden in some other random app that isn't installed by default (nm-connection-editor - took me a while to figure that out!). (To be fair it's been so long since I used KDE I can't remember if its WiFi settings also has this issue.)
- criticalfault 2y ago
  Yes, called gnome boxes. https://apps.gnome.org/Boxes/ https://apps.gnome.org/Boxes/ This was only an example. Boxes is no metric for anything, but having an app that works well in that Desktop is a good thing. There is nothing flike that or KDE. It's all for gnome. Point here being that KDE has a lack of apps. If talking about more generic apps, gnome has better Multimedia Tools, Firefox uses gtk to better integrate with gnome... The only thing/app kde has better is krita. Or is there something I'm missing that gnome doesn't do better? (Excluding files from this comparison) I'm just wondering who is then target audience for KDE? Only artists that use krita? Or teenagers that like to mod stuff? Regarding wifi, given only 'standard' use, you connect to wifi and that's it. Gnome offers a password entry and done. For advanced users I don't see an issue - they can figure it out (gnome connection editor has quite some advanced options). And also, I didn't use KDE on a real machine for a while.
  - 0x_rs 2y ago
    >I'm just wondering who is then target audience for KDE? Only artists that use krita? Or teenagers that like to mod stuff? What a spiteful thing to say, it's very difficult for me to believe you are asking this genuinely. Firstly, KDE has no such "lack of apps". The majority of GNOME applications are far inferior to DE-independent "apps", so much so one may wonder why effort is even being spent into developing such flawed and barely functioning toys. Ah, well, at least Books isn't maintained anymore because it was barely usable. KDE's audience is far broader, because it does not force you to follow a vague and poorly implemented design vision that is actively hostile to the user, has usable defaults and can be trivially customized to actually reflect a minimal design approach also. It is not surprising it's being shipped quite successful with every Steam Deck, for example.
    - criticalfault 2y ago
      The question was a bit assholish, because rant. Fair to call me on it. Yes, I am aware that KDE audience is broader. Just remembered an additional good product from KDE: kdenlive. Let me try to put it in a better way: most of the time I have seen Linux in the wild (let's say companies) was Ubuntu/gnome. Even tv shows. And I don't remember ever seeing kde (LiMux aside since it is dead now). I have read that it is sometimes used in some specific industries like chemistry for legacy reasons/apps. Not sure how the automotive industry fits here, but I know they for example use qt, not sure if this extends to kde. Based on what I have seen and read (which is not all Industries of course), KDE has a significantly smaller user base. In a non-professional setting, I have exclusively seen gnome. Not sure how steamdeck fits here, depends on what valve took. Last I read was a compositor. Di they actually use whole desktop with plasmoids? Can you give an example of de-independent apps that are superior? To be clear: when talking about fitting into a desktop and talking about gnome vs KDE, it comes down mostly to the toolkit. Some examples like vlc could be considered de-independent though even though they use qt Don't get me wrong, I don't hate KDE project. Far from it. But what they do and what I think they should do differs. What I completely disagree with is that UX of gnome is wrong. It is opinionated and a lot of us like this 'opinion'. Many people using Ubuntu don't change a thing. Does this fit usable defaults? If things are well thought out, why do I need to tinker with the desktop to launch firefox, office, copy files or consume multimedia? Because in the end - this is what it is about, productivity. I don't get this hostility statement. They follow a vision - their vision. They offer it for free. And people are upset because they do not work on the vision of that (minor) group?
consteval 2y ago
I don't know, I love the way KDE looks and feels. It's very fast and it's quite beautiful. Breeze, to me, is a very aesthetically pleasing theme. And I'm not just saying that. Since the move to breeze in 5.0 I've thought it was pretty. Since then it's only improved. I really like the icons too - they're vibrant, but not completely flat. I like bright colors, sharp lines, higher contrast. I really, really don't see this Frankenstein approach viewpoint. To me every KDE app feels and functions like a KDE app. GTK apps stick out like a sore thumb in the desktop world. They have big buttons, nothing is labeled, the title bar is huge for some reason. You kinda just have to guess what clicking buttons does. KDE apps are more closely aligned with traditional desktop applications I've been familiar with since XP. I like that. On a usability note, I think KDE is super good here too. I really like the apps, many I consider best-in-class. Kate is really good, dolphin is the best file manager I've used, kdevelop is a fantastic ide. Even random things, like kinfocenter (the system information pop-up) are really, really good. Krunner is great, the new system monitor is the best I've ever used. The new application menu is perfect.

IshKebab 2y ago

Gnome has a VM manager? I mean I feel like that's such a niche tool that doesn't need to be part of the desktop environment, unlike for example WiFi settings which Gnome provides a very very basic interface for but most of the options are hidden in some other random app that isn't installed by default (nm-connection-editor - took me a while to figure that out!). (To be fair it's been so long since I used KDE I can't remember if its WiFi settings also has this issue.)

criticalfault 2y ago
Yes, called gnome boxes. https://apps.gnome.org/Boxes/ https://apps.gnome.org/Boxes/ This was only an example. Boxes is no metric for anything, but having an app that works well in that Desktop is a good thing. There is nothing flike that or KDE. It's all for gnome. Point here being that KDE has a lack of apps. If talking about more generic apps, gnome has better Multimedia Tools, Firefox uses gtk to better integrate with gnome... The only thing/app kde has better is krita. Or is there something I'm missing that gnome doesn't do better? (Excluding files from this comparison) I'm just wondering who is then target audience for KDE? Only artists that use krita? Or teenagers that like to mod stuff? Regarding wifi, given only 'standard' use, you connect to wifi and that's it. Gnome offers a password entry and done. For advanced users I don't see an issue - they can figure it out (gnome connection editor has quite some advanced options). And also, I didn't use KDE on a real machine for a while.
- 0x_rs 2y ago
  >I'm just wondering who is then target audience for KDE? Only artists that use krita? Or teenagers that like to mod stuff? What a spiteful thing to say, it's very difficult for me to believe you are asking this genuinely. Firstly, KDE has no such "lack of apps". The majority of GNOME applications are far inferior to DE-independent "apps", so much so one may wonder why effort is even being spent into developing such flawed and barely functioning toys. Ah, well, at least Books isn't maintained anymore because it was barely usable. KDE's audience is far broader, because it does not force you to follow a vague and poorly implemented design vision that is actively hostile to the user, has usable defaults and can be trivially customized to actually reflect a minimal design approach also. It is not surprising it's being shipped quite successful with every Steam Deck, for example.
  - criticalfault 2y ago
    The question was a bit assholish, because rant. Fair to call me on it. Yes, I am aware that KDE audience is broader. Just remembered an additional good product from KDE: kdenlive. Let me try to put it in a better way: most of the time I have seen Linux in the wild (let's say companies) was Ubuntu/gnome. Even tv shows. And I don't remember ever seeing kde (LiMux aside since it is dead now). I have read that it is sometimes used in some specific industries like chemistry for legacy reasons/apps. Not sure how the automotive industry fits here, but I know they for example use qt, not sure if this extends to kde. Based on what I have seen and read (which is not all Industries of course), KDE has a significantly smaller user base. In a non-professional setting, I have exclusively seen gnome. Not sure how steamdeck fits here, depends on what valve took. Last I read was a compositor. Di they actually use whole desktop with plasmoids? Can you give an example of de-independent apps that are superior? To be clear: when talking about fitting into a desktop and talking about gnome vs KDE, it comes down mostly to the toolkit. Some examples like vlc could be considered de-independent though even though they use qt Don't get me wrong, I don't hate KDE project. Far from it. But what they do and what I think they should do differs. What I completely disagree with is that UX of gnome is wrong. It is opinionated and a lot of us like this 'opinion'. Many people using Ubuntu don't change a thing. Does this fit usable defaults? If things are well thought out, why do I need to tinker with the desktop to launch firefox, office, copy files or consume multimedia? Because in the end - this is what it is about, productivity. I don't get this hostility statement. They follow a vision - their vision. They offer it for free. And people are upset because they do not work on the vision of that (minor) group?

consteval 2y ago

I don't know, I love the way KDE looks and feels. It's very fast and it's quite beautiful. Breeze, to me, is a very aesthetically pleasing theme. And I'm not just saying that. Since the move to breeze in 5.0 I've thought it was pretty. Since then it's only improved. I really like the icons too - they're vibrant, but not completely flat. I like bright colors, sharp lines, higher contrast. I really, really don't see this Frankenstein approach viewpoint. To me every KDE app feels and functions like a KDE app. GTK apps stick out like a sore thumb in the desktop world. They have big buttons, nothing is labeled, the title bar is huge for some reason. You kinda just have to guess what clicking buttons does. KDE apps are more closely aligned with traditional desktop applications I've been familiar with since XP. I like that. On a usability note, I think KDE is super good here too. I really like the apps, many I consider best-in-class. Kate is really good, dolphin is the best file manager I've used, kdevelop is a fantastic ide. Even random things, like kinfocenter (the system information pop-up) are really, really good. Krunner is great, the new system monitor is the best I've ever used. The new application menu is perfect.