5 ms·

Hey alphaxiv, you won’t let me claim some of my preprints, because there’s no match with the email address. Which there can’t be, as we’re only listing a generi

by w-m 2y ago

Hey alphaxiv, you won’t let me claim some of my preprints, because there’s no match with the email address. Which there can’t be, as we’re only listing a generic first.last@org addresses in the papers. Tried the claiming process twice, nothing happened. Not all papers are on Orcid, so that doesn’t help. I think it’ll be hard growing a discussion platform, if there’s barriers of entry like that to even populate your profile.

phreeza 2y ago
How would you propose making claiming possible without the risk of hijacking/misrepresentation?
- samstave 2y ago
  [flagged]
- w-m 2y ago
  The data on which authors are part of which arxiv papers is already in the arXiv database, and in Google Scholar, and in other libraries. I appreciate that it's not an easy task to get that as a third party. But the burden should be on the operators of alphaxiv to figure out a solution for this platform to take off, not for me as a user?
  - phreeza 2y ago
    Yea I agree it shouldn't be on you as a customer, was more asking out of curiosity. I don't think Google scholar has this fully solved either, I've seen many misattributed papers there.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- supriyo-biswas 2y ago
  The only way I see this working is for paper authors to include their public keys in the paper; preferably as metadata and have them produce a signed message using their private key which allows them to claim the paper. While the grandparent is understandably disappointed with the current implementation, relying on emails was always doomed from the start.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - michaelmior 2y ago
    Given that the paper would have be changed regardless, including the full email address is a relatively easy solution. ORCID is probably easier than requiring public keys and a lot of journals already require them.
    - westurner 2y ago
      W3D Decentralized Identifiers are designed for this use case.
      - westurner 2y ago
        Decentralized identifier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_identifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_identifier W3C TR did-core: "DID Decentralized Identifiers 1.0": https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/ https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/ W3C TR did-use-cases: "Use Cases and Requirements for Decentralized Identifiers" https://www.w3.org/TR/did-use-cases/ https://www.w3.org/TR/did-use-cases/ "Email addresses are not good 'permanent' identifiers for accounts" (2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38823817#38831952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38823817#38831952
      - michaelmior 2y ago
        I'm sure that would work, but most researchers already have an ORCID are required to provide it other places anyway.
- riedel 2y ago
  The claiming was 'solved' and ORCID, which both basically do no checking at all. It's just a yes/no clicking for fuzzy matched author name lists. So I guess it is enough until there is a dispute. If you are important enough to be the target of trolls than you are in a league beyond most research platforms.
- abhayhegde 2y ago
  Perhaps by linking to their actual arxiv id?
- xyst 2y ago
  There should be an equivalent of S/MIME for researchers if e-mail is not accessible.
Y_Y 2y ago
So you've put a fake email address on your papers? As in, one that you can't receive from? Why?
- chipdart 2y ago
  > So you've put a fake email address on your papers? I think you're failing to understand the basics of the problem, and even the whole problem domain. Email addresses are not created/maintained for life. You can have an email address, them have your org change name and email provider switch, and not to mention that researchers leave research institutions and thus lose access to their accounts. You have multiple scenarios where papers can be published with authors using email addresses which they lose access to.
  - gexaha 2y ago
    > You have multiple scenarios where papers can be published with authors using email addresses which they lose access to. Btw, why is it considered normal? I think it would be much better to mention an e-mail, to which you will have (more-or-less) permament access.
    - dleeftink 2y ago
      Security and affiliation purposes mostly.
    - chipdart 2y ago
      > Btw, why is it considered normal? What leads you to believe it isn't normal? I mean, do you have an eternal email address? Have you ever switched jobs? Most papers are authored/co-authored by graduate students. Do you think all of them will hold onto their institutional address after they graduate? A big chunk of them will not even continue in the field.
    - atoav 2y ago
      Why would you expect any institution to support all email addresses of their ex-employees ad infinitum? This would be a security nightmare for them. It is pretty normal for universities to have some sort of identity managmemt system that automatically provisions emails when you are employed there and deprovision them once you are gone.
auggierose 2y ago
Upload a new version of your paper on arxiv, this time with an email address that works.
- Sophira 2y ago
  Why should they need to? Their email address did work at the time of publication.
  - auggierose 2y ago
    They don't have to. But then they cannot claim the paper. It is a good idea in general to make sure that your papers contain up-to-date contact information. One way of doing this is to use an orc-id.
- azhenley 2y ago
  I’ve never understood why we need emails in papers. Who sends emails to paper authors? How often do they respond? How fast do the email addresses go out of date? I lost access to my email address included in most my papers within 2 years of publication. I see little to no value to have it included in the paper.
  - Maken 2y ago
    I do email paper authors and I do respond to requests and inquiries about my own papers. Even if you don't work at the same institution any longer, most universities let you redirect your email for many years after you left. Also, I don't think we are yet at the point when human2human communication is not possible.
    - azhenley 2y ago
      You don’t need emails in archival PDFs for human-to-human communication.
  - xyst 2y ago
    > Who sends emails to paper authors? I do when the paper is not easily available or the publisher charges some outrageous fee (have seen $50 for a paper in the past). Authors typically despise the publishers and are happy to share their work to anybody interested.
tc4v 2y ago
I know you don't have a lifetime access to institutional email adress, but using a fake address is so counterproductive. You're only going to claim the paper once, and yuh ou should do it while you have access to your email. Then you update your account eith a new address.
- Sophira 2y ago
  Let's say that John Smith at XYZ Corp has authored a paper. The company obviously wants recognition and so they use their corporate email address "jsmith@xyz.com". John has since moved on and is earning more at ABC Corp instead. XYZ Corp has duly reclaimed John's old email address, and John cannot receive emails at said address any longer. This is the situation the OP is in. It was never a "fake email address". They did not literally type "first.last@org", that was an example suitable for using in their comment. [edit: I'm actually wrong with that last statement, as it turns out. While it wasn't a fake email address, the situation is slightly more nuanced in that OP actually did say "{first}.{last}@hhi.fraunhofer.de" in the paper, as there were multiple authors who all had the same email address format - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41479618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41479618. I still think this is a valid method, though, and it's certainly not fake. Besides, the problem I outlined sounds like it probably remains an issue even if it's not the exact problem OP is experiencing.]
  - w-m 2y ago
    OP here, what I'm actually using is "{first}.{last}@hhi.fraunhofer.de" (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2312.13299 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2312.13299). I see how my earlier comment was confusing. In our case it's for saving space in the paper, and also for reducing spam. This small change may now seem silly in the age of LLMs, but the papers that have full email addresses in them get a considerable amount of fake conference and journal participation emails, which is annoying.
    - Sophira 2y ago
      Oh, I see - the situation's more nuanced than I thought, then. My apologies. I still think this is valid (and certainly not the fake email address that people are calling it), but yeah, it's not what I thought it was.
rehaanahmad 2y ago
Thanks for reaching out, I am one of the students working on this. We are adding google scholar support soon. If your paper isn't on Scholar or ORCID, you will need to submit a claim that our team reviews. There isn't really any other option, arXiv doesn't allow us to view the author's submission email automatically (although we are in the process of becoming an arXiv labs project soon).

by w-m 2y ago

phreeza 2y ago

How would you propose making claiming possible without the risk of hijacking/misrepresentation?

samstave 2y ago
[flagged]
w-m 2y ago
The data on which authors are part of which arxiv papers is already in the arXiv database, and in Google Scholar, and in other libraries. I appreciate that it's not an easy task to get that as a third party. But the burden should be on the operators of alphaxiv to figure out a solution for this platform to take off, not for me as a user?
- phreeza 2y ago
  Yea I agree it shouldn't be on you as a customer, was more asking out of curiosity. I don't think Google scholar has this fully solved either, I've seen many misattributed papers there.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
supriyo-biswas 2y ago
The only way I see this working is for paper authors to include their public keys in the paper; preferably as metadata and have them produce a signed message using their private key which allows them to claim the paper. While the grandparent is understandably disappointed with the current implementation, relying on emails was always doomed from the start.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- michaelmior 2y ago
  Given that the paper would have be changed regardless, including the full email address is a relatively easy solution. ORCID is probably easier than requiring public keys and a lot of journals already require them.
  - westurner 2y ago
    W3D Decentralized Identifiers are designed for this use case.
    - westurner 2y ago
      Decentralized identifier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_identifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_identifier W3C TR did-core: "DID Decentralized Identifiers 1.0": https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/ https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/ W3C TR did-use-cases: "Use Cases and Requirements for Decentralized Identifiers" https://www.w3.org/TR/did-use-cases/ https://www.w3.org/TR/did-use-cases/ "Email addresses are not good 'permanent' identifiers for accounts" (2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38823817#38831952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38823817#38831952
    - michaelmior 2y ago
      I'm sure that would work, but most researchers already have an ORCID are required to provide it other places anyway.
riedel 2y ago
The claiming was 'solved' and ORCID, which both basically do no checking at all. It's just a yes/no clicking for fuzzy matched author name lists. So I guess it is enough until there is a dispute. If you are important enough to be the target of trolls than you are in a league beyond most research platforms.
abhayhegde 2y ago
Perhaps by linking to their actual arxiv id?
xyst 2y ago
There should be an equivalent of S/MIME for researchers if e-mail is not accessible.

Y_Y 2y ago

So you've put a fake email address on your papers? As in, one that you can't receive from? Why?

chipdart 2y ago
> So you've put a fake email address on your papers? I think you're failing to understand the basics of the problem, and even the whole problem domain. Email addresses are not created/maintained for life. You can have an email address, them have your org change name and email provider switch, and not to mention that researchers leave research institutions and thus lose access to their accounts. You have multiple scenarios where papers can be published with authors using email addresses which they lose access to.
- gexaha 2y ago
  > You have multiple scenarios where papers can be published with authors using email addresses which they lose access to. Btw, why is it considered normal? I think it would be much better to mention an e-mail, to which you will have (more-or-less) permament access.
  - dleeftink 2y ago
    Security and affiliation purposes mostly.
  - chipdart 2y ago
    > Btw, why is it considered normal? What leads you to believe it isn't normal? I mean, do you have an eternal email address? Have you ever switched jobs? Most papers are authored/co-authored by graduate students. Do you think all of them will hold onto their institutional address after they graduate? A big chunk of them will not even continue in the field.
  - atoav 2y ago
    Why would you expect any institution to support all email addresses of their ex-employees ad infinitum? This would be a security nightmare for them. It is pretty normal for universities to have some sort of identity managmemt system that automatically provisions emails when you are employed there and deprovision them once you are gone.

auggierose 2y ago

Upload a new version of your paper on arxiv, this time with an email address that works.

Sophira 2y ago
Why should they need to? Their email address did work at the time of publication.
- auggierose 2y ago
  They don't have to. But then they cannot claim the paper. It is a good idea in general to make sure that your papers contain up-to-date contact information. One way of doing this is to use an orc-id.
azhenley 2y ago
I’ve never understood why we need emails in papers. Who sends emails to paper authors? How often do they respond? How fast do the email addresses go out of date? I lost access to my email address included in most my papers within 2 years of publication. I see little to no value to have it included in the paper.
- Maken 2y ago
  I do email paper authors and I do respond to requests and inquiries about my own papers. Even if you don't work at the same institution any longer, most universities let you redirect your email for many years after you left. Also, I don't think we are yet at the point when human2human communication is not possible.
  - azhenley 2y ago
    You don’t need emails in archival PDFs for human-to-human communication.
- xyst 2y ago
  > Who sends emails to paper authors? I do when the paper is not easily available or the publisher charges some outrageous fee (have seen $50 for a paper in the past). Authors typically despise the publishers and are happy to share their work to anybody interested.

tc4v 2y ago

I know you don't have a lifetime access to institutional email adress, but using a fake address is so counterproductive. You're only going to claim the paper once, and yuh ou should do it while you have access to your email. Then you update your account eith a new address.

Sophira 2y ago
Let's say that John Smith at XYZ Corp has authored a paper. The company obviously wants recognition and so they use their corporate email address "jsmith@xyz.com". John has since moved on and is earning more at ABC Corp instead. XYZ Corp has duly reclaimed John's old email address, and John cannot receive emails at said address any longer. This is the situation the OP is in. It was never a "fake email address". They did not literally type "first.last@org", that was an example suitable for using in their comment. [edit: I'm actually wrong with that last statement, as it turns out. While it wasn't a fake email address, the situation is slightly more nuanced in that OP actually did say "{first}.{last}@hhi.fraunhofer.de" in the paper, as there were multiple authors who all had the same email address format - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41479618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41479618. I still think this is a valid method, though, and it's certainly not fake. Besides, the problem I outlined sounds like it probably remains an issue even if it's not the exact problem OP is experiencing.]
- w-m 2y ago
  OP here, what I'm actually using is "{first}.{last}@hhi.fraunhofer.de" (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2312.13299 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2312.13299). I see how my earlier comment was confusing. In our case it's for saving space in the paper, and also for reducing spam. This small change may now seem silly in the age of LLMs, but the papers that have full email addresses in them get a considerable amount of fake conference and journal participation emails, which is annoying.
  - Sophira 2y ago
    Oh, I see - the situation's more nuanced than I thought, then. My apologies. I still think this is valid (and certainly not the fake email address that people are calling it), but yeah, it's not what I thought it was.

rehaanahmad 2y ago

Thanks for reaching out, I am one of the students working on this. We are adding google scholar support soon. If your paper isn't on Scholar or ORCID, you will need to submit a claim that our team reviews. There isn't really any other option, arXiv doesn't allow us to view the author's submission email automatically (although we are in the process of becoming an arXiv labs project soon).