5 ms·

This is a problem that will resolve itself with time as C developers retire and new projects start in Rust.

doe_eyes 2y ago
C is 52 years old; C++ is nearly 40. That's more than a generation. Yet, I'd bet that there are more up-and-coming developers learning C/C++ than Rust today. The problem isn't just personal preference or inertia. It's that all mainstream OSes, libraries, and system software are written in C/C++. You can't exactly ignore this and not learn the language if you want to work in this space. Of course, there are many developers who don't work with system-level stuff, and they may be perfectly fine just knowing Java or JavaScript, but Rust is not positioning itself as a direct competitor to that.
- xelamonster 2y ago
  How is "too much existing software uses C/C++" not just inertia? That can also change with time.
  - doe_eyes 2y ago
    Inertia is doing things because you're used to doing them. This is pragmatism: until the arrival of mainstream Rust-based OSes, there's probably no escaping C/C++.
    - xelamonster 2y ago
      My point is that the arrival of Rust-based OSes is absolutely in the cards, so while I don't disagree that it would be very difficult to fully escape at the moment that is also actively changing.
- MBCook 2y ago
  The world has lots of important COBOL. You’re dead on. Even if everyone committed to all new code in Rust tomorrow, C/C++ will be around for a LONG time. There’s just too much pre-existing code.
jay-barronville 2y ago
> This is a problem that will resolve itself with time as C developers retire and new projects start in Rust. Respectfully, this is wishful thinking. C programmers aren’t going anywhere any time soon. There are millions upon millions upon millions lines of C code everywhere running critical software, firmware, infrastructure, etc. that won’t be rewritten in Rust any time soon.
- mav3ri3k 2y ago
  From my perspective (college student), it is true that there is godly amount of C code in the world which would remain true for a long long time. In similar sense there are also quite a lot of new java developers who maintain the millions of lines of java code. However a lot of new infrastructure is being developed in rust. Infact it can be argued that the very reason it should be in rust is because it is critical. I think there would be great value if a person can efficiently thread between both rust and c rather than competing.
  - fuckrabs 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - MBCook 2y ago
      The entire graphics driver for Apple Silicon Macs in Linux, with zero memory bugs in the code despite being deployed to a large number of machines. including a fully conformant OpenGL implementation and most/all of Vulkan (I’ve lost track of the current state).
  - MBCook 2y ago
    Java is not an old “maintain the code” language as you seem to imply. Despite not being the new hotness for about 25 years it’s an extremely useful and productive language and I assure you there are tons and tons of new things being written in it every day. The language is still evolving and has been getting great improvements. Yeah it has some warts, but it’s been running and keeping backwards compatibility for 30 years despite evolving.

C is 52 years old; C++ is nearly 40. That's more than a generation. Yet, I'd bet that there are more up-and-coming developers learning C/C++ than Rust today. The problem isn't just personal preference or inertia. It's that all mainstream OSes, libraries, and system software are written in C/C++. You can't exactly ignore this and not learn the language if you want to work in this space. Of course, there are many developers who don't work with system-level stuff, and they may be perfectly fine just knowing Java or JavaScript, but Rust is not positioning itself as a direct competitor to that.

xelamonster 2y ago
How is "too much existing software uses C/C++" not just inertia? That can also change with time.
- doe_eyes 2y ago
  Inertia is doing things because you're used to doing them. This is pragmatism: until the arrival of mainstream Rust-based OSes, there's probably no escaping C/C++.
  - xelamonster 2y ago
    My point is that the arrival of Rust-based OSes is absolutely in the cards, so while I don't disagree that it would be very difficult to fully escape at the moment that is also actively changing.
MBCook 2y ago
The world has lots of important COBOL. You’re dead on. Even if everyone committed to all new code in Rust tomorrow, C/C++ will be around for a LONG time. There’s just too much pre-existing code.

jay-barronville 2y ago

> This is a problem that will resolve itself with time as C developers retire and new projects start in Rust. Respectfully, this is wishful thinking. C programmers aren’t going anywhere any time soon. There are millions upon millions upon millions lines of C code everywhere running critical software, firmware, infrastructure, etc. that won’t be rewritten in Rust any time soon.

mav3ri3k 2y ago
From my perspective (college student), it is true that there is godly amount of C code in the world which would remain true for a long long time. In similar sense there are also quite a lot of new java developers who maintain the millions of lines of java code. However a lot of new infrastructure is being developed in rust. Infact it can be argued that the very reason it should be in rust is because it is critical. I think there would be great value if a person can efficiently thread between both rust and c rather than competing.
- fuckrabs 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - MBCook 2y ago
    The entire graphics driver for Apple Silicon Macs in Linux, with zero memory bugs in the code despite being deployed to a large number of machines. including a fully conformant OpenGL implementation and most/all of Vulkan (I’ve lost track of the current state).
- MBCook 2y ago
  Java is not an old “maintain the code” language as you seem to imply. Despite not being the new hotness for about 25 years it’s an extremely useful and productive language and I assure you there are tons and tons of new things being written in it every day. The language is still evolving and has been getting great improvements. Yeah it has some warts, but it’s been running and keeping backwards compatibility for 30 years despite evolving.