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Electric powered trains are run by diesel engines to produce the electricity, the Giga train uses batteries like an EV.

by rmason 2y ago

fragmede 2y ago
or by a third rail or overhead wire
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  Batteries are cool PR, but wouldn't it be better for a train to not have to accelerate all the mass of the batteries, and just use wires overhead to deliver power?
  - fragmede 2y ago
    "just" run high powered wires with enough energy to move an entire train for the entire length of the track? and deal with having a coupling system to the train? obviously since it's been done it's feasible, but I think you're discounting how much work that is to build and maintain. I'm not sure what's more resilient, if a tree falls on to the tracks breaking the electrified wire, it'd also be on the rails, stopping the train anyway, but I imagine not having an electrified wired dangling around across the country is less dangerous than having a battery in a known location with qualified engineers looking after it. They could just be doing this for PR purposes, but I'd love to see the internal cost analysis that was done to build this vs the cost of building using a known good solution.
    - qarl 2y ago
      The whole point of electric is to improve environmental impact. Wasting energy by moving those batteries is contrary to that goal.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        it's not like running a wire for great lengths is ecologically neutral either though, and power transmission lines have losses too. We'd have to see some actual numbers before deciding if moving heavy batteries is better or worse than having an electrified wire.
        qarl 2y ago
        I guess I don't see the big issue with running a wire when you already must run a much larger and more complex track. And yes, we'd need to see numbers to be certain, but my intuition tells me that transmission losses won't come close to hauling all that weight.
    - csb6 2y ago
      > “just" run high powered wires with enough energy to move an entire train for the entire length of the track? This has been done successfully around the world since the 1880s. Looking at a map it seems like the length of the line is only a few miles, so doesn’t seem like it would be that huge of an electrification project, especially considering Germany’s rails are already 55% electrified.
    - timeon 2y ago
      Haven't you be to railroad? It is really "just" how it works for centuries.
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    Depending on the location, it’s more environmentally impactful to run copper wires everywhere. Batteries have a lot of advantages if you trust they won’t explode too often.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    Lots of trains designed to run by overhead lines have some amount of on-board storage capacity in case power goes out on a segment of the path.
  - orwin 2y ago
    I almost bored you with technical details I will refrain, but basically, you want your train to be able to continue if you have a third rail/overhead failure. Look up TGV-M if you want more information.
adrian_b 2y ago
Trains with batteries might make sense in USA, but it is extremely weird to see one in Europe, where electrified rails are ubiquitous and they do not have the disadvantage of batteries that must be charged and which have a limited lifetime.
- sva_ 2y ago
  I think with the crumbling infrastructure here in Germany, anything that reduces infrastructure maintenance probably makes sense. And ubiquitous? Last time I checked more than half of all trains here ran on Diesel engines. No idea if it improved since, but probably not by much.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
That is not what is normally called an electric train. That is called a diesel train. (Or a diesel-electric train.)
qarl 2y ago
Ummm... what charges the batteries? Not diesel?
stetrain 2y ago
The "Giga train" is an off-the-shelf battery electric train that Siemens already produces. Tesla just funded their use on this shuttle line for employees of their factory.
timeon 2y ago
Is it common for main railroads not to be electrified? In what part of the world do you live?
- vel0city 2y ago
  Lots of routes around the world rely on diesel-electric trains. Its not like its some rare thing.
vel0city 2y ago
I just rode on a train earlier today that was powered mostly by solar, wind, and some natural gas delivered by the grid.

Electric powered trains are run by diesel engines to produce the electricity, the Giga train uses batteries like an EV.

by rmason 2y ago

Electric powered trains are run by diesel engines to produce the electricity, the Giga train uses batteries like an EV.

fragmede 2y ago

or by a third rail or overhead wire

IncreasePosts 2y ago
Batteries are cool PR, but wouldn't it be better for a train to not have to accelerate all the mass of the batteries, and just use wires overhead to deliver power?
- fragmede 2y ago
  "just" run high powered wires with enough energy to move an entire train for the entire length of the track? and deal with having a coupling system to the train? obviously since it's been done it's feasible, but I think you're discounting how much work that is to build and maintain. I'm not sure what's more resilient, if a tree falls on to the tracks breaking the electrified wire, it'd also be on the rails, stopping the train anyway, but I imagine not having an electrified wired dangling around across the country is less dangerous than having a battery in a known location with qualified engineers looking after it. They could just be doing this for PR purposes, but I'd love to see the internal cost analysis that was done to build this vs the cost of building using a known good solution.
  - qarl 2y ago
    The whole point of electric is to improve environmental impact. Wasting energy by moving those batteries is contrary to that goal.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      it's not like running a wire for great lengths is ecologically neutral either though, and power transmission lines have losses too. We'd have to see some actual numbers before deciding if moving heavy batteries is better or worse than having an electrified wire.
      - qarl 2y ago
        I guess I don't see the big issue with running a wire when you already must run a much larger and more complex track. And yes, we'd need to see numbers to be certain, but my intuition tells me that transmission losses won't come close to hauling all that weight.
  - csb6 2y ago
    > “just" run high powered wires with enough energy to move an entire train for the entire length of the track? This has been done successfully around the world since the 1880s. Looking at a map it seems like the length of the line is only a few miles, so doesn’t seem like it would be that huge of an electrification project, especially considering Germany’s rails are already 55% electrified.
  - timeon 2y ago
    Haven't you be to railroad? It is really "just" how it works for centuries.
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  Depending on the location, it’s more environmentally impactful to run copper wires everywhere. Batteries have a lot of advantages if you trust they won’t explode too often.
- vel0city 2y ago
  Lots of trains designed to run by overhead lines have some amount of on-board storage capacity in case power goes out on a segment of the path.
- orwin 2y ago
  I almost bored you with technical details I will refrain, but basically, you want your train to be able to continue if you have a third rail/overhead failure. Look up TGV-M if you want more information.

adrian_b 2y ago

Trains with batteries might make sense in USA, but it is extremely weird to see one in Europe, where electrified rails are ubiquitous and they do not have the disadvantage of batteries that must be charged and which have a limited lifetime.

sva_ 2y ago
I think with the crumbling infrastructure here in Germany, anything that reduces infrastructure maintenance probably makes sense. And ubiquitous? Last time I checked more than half of all trains here ran on Diesel engines. No idea if it improved since, but probably not by much.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

That is not what is normally called an electric train. That is called a diesel train. (Or a diesel-electric train.)

qarl 2y ago

Ummm... what charges the batteries? Not diesel?

stetrain 2y ago

The "Giga train" is an off-the-shelf battery electric train that Siemens already produces. Tesla just funded their use on this shuttle line for employees of their factory.

timeon 2y ago

Is it common for main railroads not to be electrified? In what part of the world do you live?

vel0city 2y ago
Lots of routes around the world rely on diesel-electric trains. Its not like its some rare thing.

vel0city 2y ago

I just rode on a train earlier today that was powered mostly by solar, wind, and some natural gas delivered by the grid.