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So those people are outright lying through their teeth? Got it. You're just reasoning from negativity and cynicism. No evidence for anything. Other than "zomg

by arp242 2y ago

So those people are outright lying through their teeth? Got it. You're just reasoning from negativity and cynicism. No evidence for anything. Other than "zomg they're bad".

amiga386 2y ago
I didn't say they were lying. It can be true that their new search is better but costlier to run. They can focus on that in their PR, along with how shiny and new the shiny new search is, to distract you that they are removing anonymous search and making the site worse. Nobody made them turn off the old search, they chose that, and they bundled the two together in one PR push. Fancy new search = carrot. Remove anonymous search = stick. Carrot and stick work together to drive more signups, more logins, more data tracked, more data sales, more money.
- pcl 2y ago
  I completely understand where they're coming from. Maintaining two separate search stacks for different user groups sounds like a nightmare. Multiply that by every feature that increases in complexity enough to bubble up on the cost-center metrics, and it for sure makes sense to prune complexity at the cost of secondary-feature functionality for anonymous requests.
  - Alupis 2y ago
    Besides all of that - Github has zero obligation to provide Free services to users, let alone non-users. The person you are responding to doesn't even want to make a free account yet expects to be able to use all of Github's services for free. That's some wild entitlement. The disconnect here is unreal...
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Same with Twitter, tbh
    - pelasaco 2y ago
      Its not hard to understand why a service like exercism has no money. People want everything for free
    - nicce 2y ago
      > The person you are responding to doesn't even want to make a free account yet expects to be able to use all of Github's services for free. To be fair, definition of free depends. OPs argument was that they pay with data. That is not free if you think that you lose something. It is different question do we value it similarly.
      - Alupis 2y ago
        Ok then, so that's like going to a restaurant and complaining the food costs money. Metaphoric "duh".
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        That's not accurate. GitHub is still getting lots of data from people without accounts, and providing open access helps them get more users in general. If we have to do a restaurant analogy, it's like going to a restaurant (buffet?), opting out of premium, and still wanting access to a particular food item. It's not automatically ridiculous.
        Alupis 2y ago
        The OP is literally standing outside the restaurant looking through the window and complaining about not being allowed to eat for free. > GitHub is still getting lots of data from people without accounts This doesn't matter. If you want code search, you must log into a free account. Why is this controversial? Github isn't a charity - they don't exist to benefit freeloaders that won't even create a free account. Life doesn't need to be this hard folks...
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        Your version of the analogy makes no sense, because the people with accounts are also eating for free. If data is payment, then both groups are paying. If data isn't payment, then what is? Please elaborate on what distinguishes the groups, and how people with free github accounts fit into the analogy.
    - smcnally 2y ago
      One day I’m going to share stories here of how the "Columbia House Record Club" worked to watch people assume the foetal position and rock themselves to horrified sleep.
    - tayo42 2y ago
      I have an account but github with forced 2fa is annoying to login with when I'm logged out. When your in the middle of something and suddenly have to go through a login flow, password manager, 2fa, just to look something up, maybe small, but I find it annoying
    - justinclift 2y ago
      > Github has zero obligation to provide Free services to users If they didn't, most (all?) of the major OSS projects that use them would have to find an alternative. Those major OSS projects are why Github is the "central" OSS hosting place. If they move on, then it's unclear if GitHub would remain all that central after a few years. "Probably not" is my thought, though I could be wrong. :)
      - ranger_danger 2y ago
        They should already be finding an alternative IMO: https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/ https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/
- smcnally 2y ago
  I don’t begrudge them requesting an authorized user account for some cases. YMMV. They balance this against allowing more open access to other projects, features and functions. Their balanced approach seems reasonable.

by arp242 2y ago

So those people are outright lying through their teeth? Got it. You're just reasoning from negativity and cynicism. No evidence for anything. Other than "zomg they're bad".

amiga386 2y ago

I didn't say they were lying. It can be true that their new search is better but costlier to run. They can focus on that in their PR, along with how shiny and new the shiny new search is, to distract you that they are removing anonymous search and making the site worse. Nobody made them turn off the old search, they chose that, and they bundled the two together in one PR push. Fancy new search = carrot. Remove anonymous search = stick. Carrot and stick work together to drive more signups, more logins, more data tracked, more data sales, more money.

pcl 2y ago
I completely understand where they're coming from. Maintaining two separate search stacks for different user groups sounds like a nightmare. Multiply that by every feature that increases in complexity enough to bubble up on the cost-center metrics, and it for sure makes sense to prune complexity at the cost of secondary-feature functionality for anonymous requests.
- Alupis 2y ago
  Besides all of that - Github has zero obligation to provide Free services to users, let alone non-users. The person you are responding to doesn't even want to make a free account yet expects to be able to use all of Github's services for free. That's some wild entitlement. The disconnect here is unreal...
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Same with Twitter, tbh
  - pelasaco 2y ago
    Its not hard to understand why a service like exercism has no money. People want everything for free
  - nicce 2y ago
    > The person you are responding to doesn't even want to make a free account yet expects to be able to use all of Github's services for free. To be fair, definition of free depends. OPs argument was that they pay with data. That is not free if you think that you lose something. It is different question do we value it similarly.
    - Alupis 2y ago
      Ok then, so that's like going to a restaurant and complaining the food costs money. Metaphoric "duh".
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        That's not accurate. GitHub is still getting lots of data from people without accounts, and providing open access helps them get more users in general. If we have to do a restaurant analogy, it's like going to a restaurant (buffet?), opting out of premium, and still wanting access to a particular food item. It's not automatically ridiculous.
        Alupis 2y ago
        The OP is literally standing outside the restaurant looking through the window and complaining about not being allowed to eat for free. > GitHub is still getting lots of data from people without accounts This doesn't matter. If you want code search, you must log into a free account. Why is this controversial? Github isn't a charity - they don't exist to benefit freeloaders that won't even create a free account. Life doesn't need to be this hard folks...
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        Your version of the analogy makes no sense, because the people with accounts are also eating for free. If data is payment, then both groups are paying. If data isn't payment, then what is? Please elaborate on what distinguishes the groups, and how people with free github accounts fit into the analogy.
  - smcnally 2y ago
    One day I’m going to share stories here of how the "Columbia House Record Club" worked to watch people assume the foetal position and rock themselves to horrified sleep.
  - tayo42 2y ago
    I have an account but github with forced 2fa is annoying to login with when I'm logged out. When your in the middle of something and suddenly have to go through a login flow, password manager, 2fa, just to look something up, maybe small, but I find it annoying
  - justinclift 2y ago
    > Github has zero obligation to provide Free services to users If they didn't, most (all?) of the major OSS projects that use them would have to find an alternative. Those major OSS projects are why Github is the "central" OSS hosting place. If they move on, then it's unclear if GitHub would remain all that central after a few years. "Probably not" is my thought, though I could be wrong. :)
    - ranger_danger 2y ago
      They should already be finding an alternative IMO: https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/ https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/
smcnally 2y ago
I don’t begrudge them requesting an authorized user account for some cases. YMMV. They balance this against allowing more open access to other projects, features and functions. Their balanced approach seems reasonable.