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How much do these cost to use? AIUI electricity prices in Europe are pretty high. What's the differential between a filling up a gas tank and filling up an EV

How much do these cost to use? AIUI electricity prices in Europe are pretty high. What's the differential between a filling up a gas tank and filling up an EV?

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
That is very depending on the country and the provider and if you have a contract. It’s quite a complex situation.
- ljf 2y ago
  In the UK - even at the 'worst' public charging, mile for mile - it is still cheaper to charge up than to drive a petrol or diesel car - and that isn't taking into account the reduced running costs of an electric car. If you can do the majority of your charging at home, then it is significantly cheaper - but even someone without a home charging set up will find it is cheaper to run an electric car in the UK.
  - thedrbrian 2y ago
    > In the UK - even at the 'worst' public charging, mile for mile - it is still cheaper to charge up than to drive a petrol or diesel car - and that isn't taking into account the reduced running costs of an electric car. X. BP currently charge £0.65 per kwh and if a car gets 4 miles per kwh the you’re paying 16.25p per mile So my car getting thrashed at 42 mpg using £1.36 Costco petrol costs about 14.7p per mile And that’s not taking into account any of the finance , insurance or anything else. Or that fuel tax is about 80% of the petrol cost.
- berkes 2y ago
  But: in almost all situations filling up electrons is cheaper than gas. It ranges from "electricity will cost you a little more per kilometer than gas" (very rare) to "electricity is slightly cheaper than gas" (most common) to "filling up your car with electricity gets you money back". (rare, but more common last year) For Americans: My 1984 VW does 1l/8.5km. A full tank costs me over €95 in the Netherlands, and over €70 in neighboring countries. Driving to do a week surfing in France (2x1500km) costs me over €800 in petrol.
  - qwytw 2y ago
    > "filling up your car with electricity gets you money back". (rare, but more common last year) At home? Sure. Public chargers can have pretty significant margins, though.
  - manuelmoreale 2y ago
    You also picked a car with an abysmal efficiency though so I’m not sure how useful that is as a datapoint. I can do roughly 1000km with one full tank so the math in my case if I was doing your 2x1500km would be around 200€ based on current prices.
    - berkes 2y ago
      It's not representive, sure. Just painting a picture. European cars are (were?) more fuel efficient than US ones. I guess, partly because of the price of petrol in Europe. There are Dodge Rams, oversized SUVs and other rediculously inefficient cars driving on dutch roads, but far less common than in the US.
johanvts 2y ago
In DK the ballpark savings is 25-50 US cents saved pr mile driven when public charging. But you can save even more at home or work. Unlimited public charging can also be had around 120USD a month. It’s around a half dollar for a public KwH and gas is around 9 usd/ gallon here.
lm28469 2y ago
> AIUI electricity prices in Europe are pretty high. Gas price too so it's fine don't worry
- Hamuko 2y ago
  95E10 was almost 2€/litre when I cycled past my usual fill-up spot. Although it wasn't that long when it was closer to 1.80€/litre.
kurthr 2y ago
Even at very high rates of e0.50/kWh and a big low efficiency EV of 160Wh/km, you're looking at ~12km/euro or 8eruo/100km. An efficient car is 5l/100km and good petrol prices are ~e1.6/l or 8euro/100km. Worst case, they're about the same. More typical electric rates are half that, and many EVs are closer to 130Wh/km.
vel0city 2y ago
I can't speak to European charger rates. Here's the math for the US. I've got an EV and an ICE crossover. The ICE crossover gets like 25mpg highway on a good day. Let's go on a 100mi trip expecting to only charge by public fast chargers/gas stations. Gas has been around $3/gal for a while near me. 100mi / 25mpg = 4gal * 3 = $12 in gas. DC fast chargers around me for my car are ~$0.32/kWh. I'll get like 3.2mi/kWh highway driving my EV. 100mi / 3.2 = 31.25kWh * .32 = $10. So slightly cheaper than my ICE. If I had a hybrid, it would beat it. 35mpg would be ~$8.57 for that trip. But DC fast chargers are very expensive; residential rates around me can be had for ~$0.12/kWh. Thus, charging at home would be ~$3.75.
- LUmBULtERA 2y ago
  Same experience for me in the US with a model Y. Charging at home the price is about 1/3 of gas equivalent cost. Charging at superchargers is pretty comparable to gas. Charging at home and not going to a gas station regularly though is also super nice.
sigio 2y ago
Given that gas is expensive in europe, driving an EV is 50%+ or more cheaper than driving gas/diesel. My car will do ~17KWh/100km, charging at ~30ct/kwh is ~5ct/km. Comparing to a ICE car, doing 5L/100km at $1.90 == ~9.5ct/km. If you have solar and can charge at home, you basically drive for free
- nottorp 2y ago
  > If you have solar and can charge at home, you basically drive for free You paid for the house, the solar and the new all-electric car though. So it depends on how long your commute is if it ends up cheaper or not.
  - itishappy 2y ago
    Certainly cheaper than the oil well and refinery needed to drive an ICE for free! This means there's a guaranteed crossover point and the relevant variable becomes the lifecycle of the car. Will you drive an EV enough to make up for the infrastructure costs?
    - nottorp 2y ago
      Except you seem to share the costs for the refinery and petrol extraction with millions of other drivers. EVs are at best subsidized by governments, and even that is going away. They really need to work on price and convenience for mass adoption.
      - itishappy 2y ago
        This is true of electrical infrastructure as well. Solar is unique in that it's cheap enough that a family can consider slapping one on their roof for true self sufficiency, but that doesn't preclude industrial scale infrastructure (like nuke plants) from contributing as well.
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
  50% cheaper feels disappointing for some reason. Also, right now, you have at least $10k of free gas when you buy an ICE car due to prices and tariffs. It’s pretty easy for poor people to make a choice. I want an EV and save the world, but it’s still way too expensive and there are no chargers around me so I’ll have to wait.
em500 2y ago
It differs a lot per country/region and supplier. In the Netherlands, public charge points range between €0.30 en €0.80 per kWh depending on the supplier, while gas at the pump is around €2.10/L (=8.81 USD/gal). Electricity prices are high, but so are gas prices.
lnxg33k1 2y ago
Probably no matter how high electricity costs, you can still save a lot by not using fuel, there are A LOT of taxes on fuel, for example in Italy, we have still one to support the Ethiopian war from 1935, here is a list to be translated https://www.alvolante.it/da_sapere/legge-e-burocrazia/accise-benzina-quali-sono-e-perche-paghiamo-tabella-383681 https://www.alvolante.it/da_sapere/legge-e-burocrazia/accise...
Hamuko 2y ago
Slow charging at the supermarket near me is 0.23 €/kWh for registered customers. I think Lidl is also around 0.20 €/kWh. Saw also that a McDonalds' charging station was charging 0.49 €/kWh. Charging at home tonight between 00:00 and 07:00 would be an average of 0.067 €/kWh (electricity wholesale + margin + transfer + tax).
superjan 2y ago
On a motorway, 50 to 80 eurocents per kWh is what I often see. There is not enough competition. It is still cheaper than what you’d spend on fossil fuels. However, for day to day use you charge at home or at the office which is much cheaper (maybe 25 cents?).

How much do these cost to use? AIUI electricity prices in Europe are pretty high. What's the differential between a filling up a gas tank and filling up an EV?

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago

That is very depending on the country and the provider and if you have a contract. It’s quite a complex situation.

ljf 2y ago
In the UK - even at the 'worst' public charging, mile for mile - it is still cheaper to charge up than to drive a petrol or diesel car - and that isn't taking into account the reduced running costs of an electric car. If you can do the majority of your charging at home, then it is significantly cheaper - but even someone without a home charging set up will find it is cheaper to run an electric car in the UK.
- thedrbrian 2y ago
  > In the UK - even at the 'worst' public charging, mile for mile - it is still cheaper to charge up than to drive a petrol or diesel car - and that isn't taking into account the reduced running costs of an electric car. X. BP currently charge £0.65 per kwh and if a car gets 4 miles per kwh the you’re paying 16.25p per mile So my car getting thrashed at 42 mpg using £1.36 Costco petrol costs about 14.7p per mile And that’s not taking into account any of the finance , insurance or anything else. Or that fuel tax is about 80% of the petrol cost.
berkes 2y ago
But: in almost all situations filling up electrons is cheaper than gas. It ranges from "electricity will cost you a little more per kilometer than gas" (very rare) to "electricity is slightly cheaper than gas" (most common) to "filling up your car with electricity gets you money back". (rare, but more common last year) For Americans: My 1984 VW does 1l/8.5km. A full tank costs me over €95 in the Netherlands, and over €70 in neighboring countries. Driving to do a week surfing in France (2x1500km) costs me over €800 in petrol.
- qwytw 2y ago
  > "filling up your car with electricity gets you money back". (rare, but more common last year) At home? Sure. Public chargers can have pretty significant margins, though.
- manuelmoreale 2y ago
  You also picked a car with an abysmal efficiency though so I’m not sure how useful that is as a datapoint. I can do roughly 1000km with one full tank so the math in my case if I was doing your 2x1500km would be around 200€ based on current prices.
  - berkes 2y ago
    It's not representive, sure. Just painting a picture. European cars are (were?) more fuel efficient than US ones. I guess, partly because of the price of petrol in Europe. There are Dodge Rams, oversized SUVs and other rediculously inefficient cars driving on dutch roads, but far less common than in the US.

johanvts 2y ago

In DK the ballpark savings is 25-50 US cents saved pr mile driven when public charging. But you can save even more at home or work. Unlimited public charging can also be had around 120USD a month. It’s around a half dollar for a public KwH and gas is around 9 usd/ gallon here.

lm28469 2y ago

> AIUI electricity prices in Europe are pretty high. Gas price too so it's fine don't worry

Hamuko 2y ago
95E10 was almost 2€/litre when I cycled past my usual fill-up spot. Although it wasn't that long when it was closer to 1.80€/litre.

kurthr 2y ago

Even at very high rates of e0.50/kWh and a big low efficiency EV of 160Wh/km, you're looking at ~12km/euro or 8eruo/100km. An efficient car is 5l/100km and good petrol prices are ~e1.6/l or 8euro/100km. Worst case, they're about the same. More typical electric rates are half that, and many EVs are closer to 130Wh/km.

vel0city 2y ago

I can't speak to European charger rates. Here's the math for the US. I've got an EV and an ICE crossover. The ICE crossover gets like 25mpg highway on a good day. Let's go on a 100mi trip expecting to only charge by public fast chargers/gas stations. Gas has been around $3/gal for a while near me. 100mi / 25mpg = 4gal * 3 = $12 in gas. DC fast chargers around me for my car are ~$0.32/kWh. I'll get like 3.2mi/kWh highway driving my EV. 100mi / 3.2 = 31.25kWh * .32 = $10. So slightly cheaper than my ICE. If I had a hybrid, it would beat it. 35mpg would be ~$8.57 for that trip. But DC fast chargers are very expensive; residential rates around me can be had for ~$0.12/kWh. Thus, charging at home would be ~$3.75.

LUmBULtERA 2y ago
Same experience for me in the US with a model Y. Charging at home the price is about 1/3 of gas equivalent cost. Charging at superchargers is pretty comparable to gas. Charging at home and not going to a gas station regularly though is also super nice.

sigio 2y ago

Given that gas is expensive in europe, driving an EV is 50%+ or more cheaper than driving gas/diesel. My car will do ~17KWh/100km, charging at ~30ct/kwh is ~5ct/km. Comparing to a ICE car, doing 5L/100km at $1.90 == ~9.5ct/km. If you have solar and can charge at home, you basically drive for free

nottorp 2y ago
> If you have solar and can charge at home, you basically drive for free You paid for the house, the solar and the new all-electric car though. So it depends on how long your commute is if it ends up cheaper or not.
- itishappy 2y ago
  Certainly cheaper than the oil well and refinery needed to drive an ICE for free! This means there's a guaranteed crossover point and the relevant variable becomes the lifecycle of the car. Will you drive an EV enough to make up for the infrastructure costs?
  - nottorp 2y ago
    Except you seem to share the costs for the refinery and petrol extraction with millions of other drivers. EVs are at best subsidized by governments, and even that is going away. They really need to work on price and convenience for mass adoption.
    - itishappy 2y ago
      This is true of electrical infrastructure as well. Solar is unique in that it's cheap enough that a family can consider slapping one on their roof for true self sufficiency, but that doesn't preclude industrial scale infrastructure (like nuke plants) from contributing as well.
JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
50% cheaper feels disappointing for some reason. Also, right now, you have at least $10k of free gas when you buy an ICE car due to prices and tariffs. It’s pretty easy for poor people to make a choice. I want an EV and save the world, but it’s still way too expensive and there are no chargers around me so I’ll have to wait.

em500 2y ago

It differs a lot per country/region and supplier. In the Netherlands, public charge points range between €0.30 en €0.80 per kWh depending on the supplier, while gas at the pump is around €2.10/L (=8.81 USD/gal). Electricity prices are high, but so are gas prices.

lnxg33k1 2y ago

Probably no matter how high electricity costs, you can still save a lot by not using fuel, there are A LOT of taxes on fuel, for example in Italy, we have still one to support the Ethiopian war from 1935, here is a list to be translated https://www.alvolante.it/da_sapere/legge-e-burocrazia/accise-benzina-quali-sono-e-perche-paghiamo-tabella-383681 https://www.alvolante.it/da_sapere/legge-e-burocrazia/accise...

Hamuko 2y ago

Slow charging at the supermarket near me is 0.23 €/kWh for registered customers. I think Lidl is also around 0.20 €/kWh. Saw also that a McDonalds' charging station was charging 0.49 €/kWh. Charging at home tonight between 00:00 and 07:00 would be an average of 0.067 €/kWh (electricity wholesale + margin + transfer + tax).

superjan 2y ago

On a motorway, 50 to 80 eurocents per kWh is what I often see. There is not enough competition. It is still cheaper than what you’d spend on fossil fuels. However, for day to day use you charge at home or at the office which is much cheaper (maybe 25 cents?).