6 ms·

Europe Surpasses 900,000 Public EV Charge Points

62 points by peutetre 2y ago

ThinkBeat 2y ago
Sadly a lot of them do not work. At least in Norway. There are a lot of charge points here, but a lot of them are not functioning. (I know they get fixed, but then others stop working etc) I dont know why they frequently stop working.
- perching_aix 2y ago
  Are there any sites that monitor this kinda stuff?
  - esafak 2y ago
    https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41467421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41467421
- dylan604 2y ago
  Are they made by the same company that makes the ice cream machine for McDonald's or taken a play from their book? This ignores the more obvious reasons of vandalism
bigbacaloa 2y ago
[dead]
nottorp 2y ago
> The Netherlands has 169.216 public charge points, representing 19,5% of Europe’s total network. Interesting, considering it's also the most bicycle friendly country in the world. I wonder if they feel like they have enough charge points now.
- vondur 2y ago
  I'd like to see the .216 charging station.
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    Not sure you're joking (Europe vs. US decimal point usage etc.), which would be fine of course, in the case you didn't it's 169216 charging stations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator (on the map of that article you can basically see the British Empire)
    - TheRealPomax 2y ago
      The joke in this case being "reading an English comment" rather than Europe vs. US: the decimal point is part of all flavours of written English, not just the US.
      - KingOfCoders 2y ago
        Yes, see the link, but as I assume most of the English speaking readers here are from the US (I might be wrong of course), I wrote US.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - mih 2y ago
    Not sure if this is a joke or serious. For those unfamiliar, period (.) is used as the thousands separator in European countries, whereas much of the world uses the comma (,). The case for the decimal separator is switched. So 69.76 would be written as 69,76 in Europe.
candiddevmike 2y ago
How much do these cost to use? AIUI electricity prices in Europe are pretty high. What's the differential between a filling up a gas tank and filling up an EV?
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  That is very depending on the country and the provider and if you have a contract. It’s quite a complex situation.
  - ljf 2y ago
    In the UK - even at the 'worst' public charging, mile for mile - it is still cheaper to charge up than to drive a petrol or diesel car - and that isn't taking into account the reduced running costs of an electric car. If you can do the majority of your charging at home, then it is significantly cheaper - but even someone without a home charging set up will find it is cheaper to run an electric car in the UK.
    - thedrbrian 2y ago
      > In the UK - even at the 'worst' public charging, mile for mile - it is still cheaper to charge up than to drive a petrol or diesel car - and that isn't taking into account the reduced running costs of an electric car. X. BP currently charge £0.65 per kwh and if a car gets 4 miles per kwh the you’re paying 16.25p per mile So my car getting thrashed at 42 mpg using £1.36 Costco petrol costs about 14.7p per mile And that’s not taking into account any of the finance , insurance or anything else. Or that fuel tax is about 80% of the petrol cost.
  - berkes 2y ago
    But: in almost all situations filling up electrons is cheaper than gas. It ranges from "electricity will cost you a little more per kilometer than gas" (very rare) to "electricity is slightly cheaper than gas" (most common) to "filling up your car with electricity gets you money back". (rare, but more common last year) For Americans: My 1984 VW does 1l/8.5km. A full tank costs me over €95 in the Netherlands, and over €70 in neighboring countries. Driving to do a week surfing in France (2x1500km) costs me over €800 in petrol.
next_xibalba 2y ago
The goal of 8.8 million charge points by 2030 goal seems within reach given the growth rates presented here. This seems like a major challenge to grid stability. How are they going to address this? Or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe they are counting on diminishing returns (urban saturation, slow rural adoption rate, tech/capacity limitations) and real-world constraints (grid capacity, regulation hurdles, high capex/investment risk, land limitation, inconsistent standards, etc.) acting as natural braking mechanism or something? But, if that were the case, maybe the goal is not actually in hand?
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Graph shows a rate of about 250k a year when they'd need about 1,600k a year to reach the goal. At the current rate they'll get to 8.8 million in 32 years... Installation rate must improve drastically.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    You need to look at the rate increase. Graph shows a rate of about 100k 3 years ago and 350k today, meaning adding about 70k production per year. To calculate what we have built by 2030 with that rate we get 70 * 5 * 6 / 2 = 1050 from the second derivative and 1750 from the first, so would be 2.8 million points by 2030. Still not exactly there, but would reach the target a few years later, so they aren't that far off from reaching it 2030, just need to increase production a bit faster.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      2.8 million in 2030 is still way off. Bottom line is that target is never going to be met on time and "few years late" will be quite a few in my estimation. I don't think production is the bottleneck. It's the actual installation with all that in entails and the electric infrastructure.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Obviously the grid can't handle 8.8 million charge points in use simultaneously. It's cars that drive demand, not charge points. If you convert all ICE cars to EV's, you'll add about 20% to electricity usage. If it takes 10 years to convert all new car sales to electric, and another 10 years before most of the old ICE vehicles stop being used, that means we have about 20 years to add 20% to the grid capacity. 1% a year is very feasible.
moralestapia 2y ago
Any way to see them on a map?
- peutetre 2y ago
  There are various charge point location maps: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://map.openchargemap.io https://map.openchargemap.io https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.zap-map.com/live/ https://www.zap-map.com/live/
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jaggs 2y ago
1 million in the UK
rpozarickij 2y ago
I think "charge points per EV" (or similar) would also be a useful metric to have.

62 points by peutetre 2y ago

Sadly a lot of them do not work. At least in Norway. There are a lot of charge points here, but a lot of them are not functioning. (I know they get fixed, but then others stop working etc) I dont know why they frequently stop working.

perching_aix 2y ago
Are there any sites that monitor this kinda stuff?
- esafak 2y ago
  https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41467421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41467421
dylan604 2y ago
Are they made by the same company that makes the ice cream machine for McDonald's or taken a play from their book? This ignores the more obvious reasons of vandalism

bigbacaloa 2y ago

[dead]

nottorp 2y ago

> The Netherlands has 169.216 public charge points, representing 19,5% of Europe’s total network. Interesting, considering it's also the most bicycle friendly country in the world. I wonder if they feel like they have enough charge points now.

vondur 2y ago
I'd like to see the .216 charging station.
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  Not sure you're joking (Europe vs. US decimal point usage etc.), which would be fine of course, in the case you didn't it's 169216 charging stations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator (on the map of that article you can basically see the British Empire)
  - TheRealPomax 2y ago
    The joke in this case being "reading an English comment" rather than Europe vs. US: the decimal point is part of all flavours of written English, not just the US.
    - KingOfCoders 2y ago
      Yes, see the link, but as I assume most of the English speaking readers here are from the US (I might be wrong of course), I wrote US.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- mih 2y ago
  Not sure if this is a joke or serious. For those unfamiliar, period (.) is used as the thousands separator in European countries, whereas much of the world uses the comma (,). The case for the decimal separator is switched. So 69.76 would be written as 69,76 in Europe.

candiddevmike 2y ago

How much do these cost to use? AIUI electricity prices in Europe are pretty high. What's the differential between a filling up a gas tank and filling up an EV?

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
That is very depending on the country and the provider and if you have a contract. It’s quite a complex situation.
- ljf 2y ago
  In the UK - even at the 'worst' public charging, mile for mile - it is still cheaper to charge up than to drive a petrol or diesel car - and that isn't taking into account the reduced running costs of an electric car. If you can do the majority of your charging at home, then it is significantly cheaper - but even someone without a home charging set up will find it is cheaper to run an electric car in the UK.
  - thedrbrian 2y ago
    > In the UK - even at the 'worst' public charging, mile for mile - it is still cheaper to charge up than to drive a petrol or diesel car - and that isn't taking into account the reduced running costs of an electric car. X. BP currently charge £0.65 per kwh and if a car gets 4 miles per kwh the you’re paying 16.25p per mile So my car getting thrashed at 42 mpg using £1.36 Costco petrol costs about 14.7p per mile And that’s not taking into account any of the finance , insurance or anything else. Or that fuel tax is about 80% of the petrol cost.
- berkes 2y ago
  But: in almost all situations filling up electrons is cheaper than gas. It ranges from "electricity will cost you a little more per kilometer than gas" (very rare) to "electricity is slightly cheaper than gas" (most common) to "filling up your car with electricity gets you money back". (rare, but more common last year) For Americans: My 1984 VW does 1l/8.5km. A full tank costs me over €95 in the Netherlands, and over €70 in neighboring countries. Driving to do a week surfing in France (2x1500km) costs me over €800 in petrol.

next_xibalba 2y ago

The goal of 8.8 million charge points by 2030 goal seems within reach given the growth rates presented here. This seems like a major challenge to grid stability. How are they going to address this? Or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe they are counting on diminishing returns (urban saturation, slow rural adoption rate, tech/capacity limitations) and real-world constraints (grid capacity, regulation hurdles, high capex/investment risk, land limitation, inconsistent standards, etc.) acting as natural braking mechanism or something? But, if that were the case, maybe the goal is not actually in hand?

mytailorisrich 2y ago
Graph shows a rate of about 250k a year when they'd need about 1,600k a year to reach the goal. At the current rate they'll get to 8.8 million in 32 years... Installation rate must improve drastically.
- Jensson 2y ago
  You need to look at the rate increase. Graph shows a rate of about 100k 3 years ago and 350k today, meaning adding about 70k production per year. To calculate what we have built by 2030 with that rate we get 70 * 5 * 6 / 2 = 1050 from the second derivative and 1750 from the first, so would be 2.8 million points by 2030. Still not exactly there, but would reach the target a few years later, so they aren't that far off from reaching it 2030, just need to increase production a bit faster.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    2.8 million in 2030 is still way off. Bottom line is that target is never going to be met on time and "few years late" will be quite a few in my estimation. I don't think production is the bottleneck. It's the actual installation with all that in entails and the electric infrastructure.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
Obviously the grid can't handle 8.8 million charge points in use simultaneously. It's cars that drive demand, not charge points. If you convert all ICE cars to EV's, you'll add about 20% to electricity usage. If it takes 10 years to convert all new car sales to electric, and another 10 years before most of the old ICE vehicles stop being used, that means we have about 20 years to add 20% to the grid capacity. 1% a year is very feasible.

moralestapia 2y ago

Any way to see them on a map?

peutetre 2y ago
There are various charge point location maps: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://map.openchargemap.io https://map.openchargemap.io https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.zap-map.com/live/ https://www.zap-map.com/live/

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jaggs 2y ago

1 million in the UK

rpozarickij 2y ago

I think "charge points per EV" (or similar) would also be a useful metric to have.