5 ms·

>ban all rental e-scooters from October because of the risk they pose to pedestrians >injury-inducing street litter Do cars next, I dare you.

marginalia_nu 2y ago
> injury-inducing street litter If you abandon a car in the middle of the road across two lanes, you'll fairly likely see relatively hefty fines, possibly lose your car. This hurts you, the abandoning party directly. If you abandon a rental e-scooter in the same way, you'll most likely have no repercussions, and at worst the cheap e-scooter is forfeit which doesn't impact you, the abandoning party at all, and not really the e-scooter company either since they're most likely on a VC funded mission to try to flood the market with cheap e-scooter rentals until the competition drowns. There's some seriously skewed incentives at the root of the rental e-scooter plague.
- huuhee3 2y ago
  This. It's a wild west with these e-scoots, and unlike cars they're everywhere. My city has only 100k people and even here they're a huge nuisance.
  - cruffle_duffle 2y ago
    They are super convenient. Cars are the nuance. We will figure out how to deal with scooters the same way Asian cultures figured out theirs. And the same we we figured out how to socially deal with cell phones. Straight banning them because a bunch of fuddy duddies who never took one don’t like them is pretty short sighted.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      >We will figure out how to deal with scooters the same way Asian cultures figured out theirs. They did? When? Here in Tokyo, they've only very recently allowed e-scooters to be used.
      - zht 2y ago
        China?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- itishappy 2y ago
  This seems trivial to address. If you misuse HN, you get your account banned and can no longer post on HN. If you mistreat an Uber driver, you get your account banned and can no longer hail a ride. What stops this system from working with e-scooters?
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    Suppose you rent a scooter, park it "properly enough", I come by and move it a few feet into an improper parking place. Do you want your account banned for that? If not, this might not be as "trivial to address" as you first think.
    - jack_pp 2y ago
      The scooter has gps as well as your phone and they require a photo anyway. The company can check that you ended your ride correctly, what happens after that isn't your liability.
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        GPS won't help you here, though the photo will. GPS simply isn't anywhere near accurate enough to verify you placed the scooter in spot X, and not 1-2 meters away from spot X where it's now a hazard.
        kurikuri 2y ago
        A gyroscope on the scooter and location awareness of the renter’s device seems to take care of that. If the scooter’s gyroscope indicates movement after the renter has returned the scooter and left the premises, then assuming the renter didn’t move it seems pretty safe.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > This seems trivial to address. Yet it is not.
rad_gruchalski 2y ago
Cars don’t drive randomly around pedestrians on a sidewalk. Thanks for the concern though, I got knocked out by one of these things and it wasn’t pleasant. Plus, these things usually stand right on a sidewalk, right in the way of pedestrians. Good riddance. Hopefully more cities follow.
- quest88 2y ago
  Why ban them instead of incentivize better behavior?
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    How. You can’t fix stupid. Edit: I can think of a way. These things move in a regular traffic. To drive a car, I had to do a driving license. 40 hours with an instructor, a theory test, and a practical exam. How come any clueless chimp can get one of these and ride in traffic? They are dangerous to themselves and others. It’s a celebration when they wear a crash helmet. So here are my ideas: 1. Require a license for these things. 2. Collect and remove illegally parked scooters. Rental companies know who rode one, they can claim the cost of a scooter removal fee from the rider who parked it illegally. If they are concerned about people randomly moving scooters into illegal parking positions… well, come up with dedicated parking areas where the rider has to bring them back and lock them. Until then: ban them.
    - cinntaile 2y ago
      A license for an electrical scooter... It's like getting a (hypothetical) license for a bicycle. Completely unnecessary. No special skills are needed to ride one of these, it's super simple. You should try it sometime. A license won't fix stupid anyway, you just said so yourself.
      - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
        I don't tell people what they should be doing. Everyone so entitled to tell others how they should go about their lives. But there you go: you should try to understand my argument about these things moving in between the traffic. But it's interesting you mention a bicycle license. In the 1990s I did one in Poland as a young teenager. It was called "karta rowerowa". Not exactly a license but it taught me about traffic rules and probably saved me from trouble. It was worth it. Some cyclists in Aachen could make use of something similar, maybe they'll know that cycling 5kph in the presence of the StVO VZ 277.1 just aggravates everybody.
undersuit 2y ago
The simplest solution is to let scooters have priority in the streets. Aggressively police the aggressive vehicle drivers that are pushing scooters onto walkways. Especially as the car drivers already have a license system.
- aeternum 2y ago
  Imagine how much nicer cities would be if most people drove around on e-bikes and e-scooters instead of cars. Sure you might have the occasional delivery truck or car but it would generally be much safer and more pleasant for everyone. It'd be quite ironic if the US pulls this off in their cities and European cities become car-infested urban jungles.
rrnechmech 2y ago
They appear to be well underway: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18568456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18568456
- aziaziazi 2y ago
  This is a measure to encourage EC, not ban cars at all.
  - rrnechmech 2y ago
    In certain areas of the city, no motor vehicles are allowed to enter, ICE or EV or hybrid. Only pedestrians
    - undersuit 2y ago
      This happens in other cities too. Sidewalks, parks, and squares, right?

marginalia_nu 2y ago

> injury-inducing street litter If you abandon a car in the middle of the road across two lanes, you'll fairly likely see relatively hefty fines, possibly lose your car. This hurts you, the abandoning party directly. If you abandon a rental e-scooter in the same way, you'll most likely have no repercussions, and at worst the cheap e-scooter is forfeit which doesn't impact you, the abandoning party at all, and not really the e-scooter company either since they're most likely on a VC funded mission to try to flood the market with cheap e-scooter rentals until the competition drowns. There's some seriously skewed incentives at the root of the rental e-scooter plague.

huuhee3 2y ago
This. It's a wild west with these e-scoots, and unlike cars they're everywhere. My city has only 100k people and even here they're a huge nuisance.
- cruffle_duffle 2y ago
  They are super convenient. Cars are the nuance. We will figure out how to deal with scooters the same way Asian cultures figured out theirs. And the same we we figured out how to socially deal with cell phones. Straight banning them because a bunch of fuddy duddies who never took one don’t like them is pretty short sighted.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    >We will figure out how to deal with scooters the same way Asian cultures figured out theirs. They did? When? Here in Tokyo, they've only very recently allowed e-scooters to be used.
    - zht 2y ago
      China?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
itishappy 2y ago
This seems trivial to address. If you misuse HN, you get your account banned and can no longer post on HN. If you mistreat an Uber driver, you get your account banned and can no longer hail a ride. What stops this system from working with e-scooters?
- sokoloff 2y ago
  Suppose you rent a scooter, park it "properly enough", I come by and move it a few feet into an improper parking place. Do you want your account banned for that? If not, this might not be as "trivial to address" as you first think.
  - jack_pp 2y ago
    The scooter has gps as well as your phone and they require a photo anyway. The company can check that you ended your ride correctly, what happens after that isn't your liability.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      GPS won't help you here, though the photo will. GPS simply isn't anywhere near accurate enough to verify you placed the scooter in spot X, and not 1-2 meters away from spot X where it's now a hazard.
      - kurikuri 2y ago
        A gyroscope on the scooter and location awareness of the renter’s device seems to take care of that. If the scooter’s gyroscope indicates movement after the renter has returned the scooter and left the premises, then assuming the renter didn’t move it seems pretty safe.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > This seems trivial to address. Yet it is not.

rad_gruchalski 2y ago

Cars don’t drive randomly around pedestrians on a sidewalk. Thanks for the concern though, I got knocked out by one of these things and it wasn’t pleasant. Plus, these things usually stand right on a sidewalk, right in the way of pedestrians. Good riddance. Hopefully more cities follow.

quest88 2y ago
Why ban them instead of incentivize better behavior?
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  How. You can’t fix stupid. Edit: I can think of a way. These things move in a regular traffic. To drive a car, I had to do a driving license. 40 hours with an instructor, a theory test, and a practical exam. How come any clueless chimp can get one of these and ride in traffic? They are dangerous to themselves and others. It’s a celebration when they wear a crash helmet. So here are my ideas: 1. Require a license for these things. 2. Collect and remove illegally parked scooters. Rental companies know who rode one, they can claim the cost of a scooter removal fee from the rider who parked it illegally. If they are concerned about people randomly moving scooters into illegal parking positions… well, come up with dedicated parking areas where the rider has to bring them back and lock them. Until then: ban them.
  - cinntaile 2y ago
    A license for an electrical scooter... It's like getting a (hypothetical) license for a bicycle. Completely unnecessary. No special skills are needed to ride one of these, it's super simple. You should try it sometime. A license won't fix stupid anyway, you just said so yourself.
    - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
      I don't tell people what they should be doing. Everyone so entitled to tell others how they should go about their lives. But there you go: you should try to understand my argument about these things moving in between the traffic. But it's interesting you mention a bicycle license. In the 1990s I did one in Poland as a young teenager. It was called "karta rowerowa". Not exactly a license but it taught me about traffic rules and probably saved me from trouble. It was worth it. Some cyclists in Aachen could make use of something similar, maybe they'll know that cycling 5kph in the presence of the StVO VZ 277.1 just aggravates everybody.

undersuit 2y ago

The simplest solution is to let scooters have priority in the streets. Aggressively police the aggressive vehicle drivers that are pushing scooters onto walkways. Especially as the car drivers already have a license system.

aeternum 2y ago
Imagine how much nicer cities would be if most people drove around on e-bikes and e-scooters instead of cars. Sure you might have the occasional delivery truck or car but it would generally be much safer and more pleasant for everyone. It'd be quite ironic if the US pulls this off in their cities and European cities become car-infested urban jungles.

rrnechmech 2y ago

They appear to be well underway: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18568456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18568456

aziaziazi 2y ago
This is a measure to encourage EC, not ban cars at all.
- rrnechmech 2y ago
  In certain areas of the city, no motor vehicles are allowed to enter, ICE or EV or hybrid. Only pedestrians
  - undersuit 2y ago
    This happens in other cities too. Sidewalks, parks, and squares, right?