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I still can't really wrap my head around this company: 1. How did a SWE start and raise funds for this company 2. How did he/they recruit the kind of talent y

I still can't really wrap my head around this company: 1. How did a SWE start and raise funds for this company 2. How did he/they recruit the kind of talent you'd need to actually build a test plane 3. How much is left to do before a real commercial flight, and can they really do it? A few months ago the conversation was "if they depend on next-gen engines and next-gen fuel this entire company is hindering on tech that isn't even available yet" so as a very non-aviation person, what does this test flight prove? It's not the air frame, its not the engines, its not even the full control suite.

Neywiny 2y ago
Unsure on funding, but this is a proof of concept. It'll show that the modeling, design practices, manufacturing, etc are working. The "meta" of the plane. For example, while as you point out the air frame of the final production model isn't being tested, they are testing the ability to model the stresses and strains an airframe would undergo throughout the speed envelope. And that's huge
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Supersonics are limited by regulation so it's also an attempt to overturn the ban.
  - bpodgursky 2y ago
    The US is not the only country in the world, you can always sell internationally in countries with more flexibility.
    - thefounder 2y ago
      I think this is really tough especially since the US is a big market and usually airlines don’t like to buy planes that only fly in specific countries.
    - mandevil 2y ago
      It seems unlikely that airlines are going to lead the way here, just due to economics I think it's going to be the bizjet market leading the way(1). So the obvious choice for domestic flights would be Russia: rich oligarchs, huge country, loose enforcement of laws. Unfortunately for the world that is impossible for the foreseeable future. The next best target is going to be transpac- IFF they can get sufficient range. So wealthy businessmen who have to do a lot of travel between Asia and North America is a reasonable market, so long as they can do supersonic the entire way. If you have to stop and refuel I suspect that the numbers don't work so well. If they can only do a translant without refueling the market is going to be people who want the prestige of having the coolest toys, and Boom is stuck trying to compete with Gulfstream G650 on prestige. 1: R.E.G. Davies explained it best, the problem with commercial supersonic is that the earth is rotating. For commercial airlines, the killer app for selling "expensive but gets you there faster" flights is the ability to get someone to a meeting the same day versus having to travel the day before. If you can save an executive a day that is hugely valuable and worth the company paying a premium for. If you can't, paying extra for a faster flight just isn't worth that much. As a thought experiment, let's say that everything else is exactly the same, but at the end of the runway a Star Trek transporter beams the plane directly to the runway at the destination. So the executive wakes up in NYC at 5:30AM, is out of the house by 6AM, takes an hour to get to the airport, that's 7AM. It's an international flight so they need to go through extra checks, it's 8AM when their flight leaves for Paris. It is beamed directly to CDG, thanks to time zones it's now 2PM. Then it takes another hour to get through passport control etc. and it's 3PM, and another hour for ground travel in Paris and even without the flight taking any time at all it's already 4PM after waking up at 5:30AM. That's tough to make meetings work. (Obviously the return trip can achieve this meeting on day 1 effect, but a commercial airline you can only charge good prices for on half of its legs is going to be tricky to earn its money back.)
      - laidoffamazon 2y ago
        What about the Gulf States? Also lots of money, lots of ocean if they're traveling to South Asia/South East Asia, opportunity for subsonic to Europe, etc
        2y ago
  - onion2k 2y ago
    They don't need to do that on their own though. They just need customers who want a supersonic plane who are willing to put their backing to overturning the ban. If a few dozen super rich people say they'd be able to create a million jobs by shaving 20 minutes off a trip 'the people' will often listen.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > a few dozen super rich people Overture is an airliner [1]. With a $5k price target (I’d guess $10k), their market is habitual business-class travellers. Not even the low-end private jet crowd. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Overture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Overture
      - vkou 2y ago
        Going after business class travelers in a world with Zoom and 'doing more with less' being the zeitgeist of corporate spending is starting to sound like doubling down on making gold-plated horse buggies five years after the first Model T rolled off the assembly line.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > business class travelers in a world with Zoom and 'doing more with less' being the zeitgeist of corporate spending Not sure if you’ve flown recently, but the front cabin is full, increasingly of leisure travellers who can work remotely. (Not upgrades, either. RASM is up and growing.) Also, Zoom meetings are great for middle management and start-ups. But middle management wasn’t being flown around in business anyway. If you’re pitching a billion-dollar LP, you’re flying to meet them.
        projectazorian 2y ago
        > Not sure if you’ve flown recently, but the front cabin is full, increasingly of leisure travellers who can work remotely. (Not upgrades, either. RASM is up and growing.) It seems like US legacy carriers have gotten a lot better at offering discounted business class fares vs. simply throwing it open to upgrades and standbys when they can't fill the cabin with full fare pax. I suppose maintaining exclusivity is less of a concern these days; they've probably figured out that competing with Middle Eastern and Asian carriers on luxury is a losing battle. > Also, Zoom meetings are great for middle management and start-ups. But middle management wasn’t being flown around in business anyway. Many companies still allow business class for transcontinental flights, for all employees. Big Tech is kind of an exception here from what I've heard. IMO for domestic US travel business is rarely worth the premium anyway vs. premium economy; I'd rather grab a window seat with added legroom and work (or game on my Steam Deck) through the flight. Business class service is often a distraction, and in return you get food that's frequently worse than what you can find in the airport.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> what does this test flight prove? This? Nothing of general consequence. Once XB-1 goes supersonic, which Boom says it’ll do later this year, we’ll get real-world sonic-boom reduction data that could influence the FAA. It will also demonstrate the drag of their nose design, which should inform fuel-burn estimates for their airliner. Following that, the hurdle is the supercruising engine. The XB-1 uses afterburning J85s to go supersonic. Presumably, getting the FAA to flip on overland bans would unlock the capital needed to finish Symphony [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Symphony https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Symphony
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  > Development of the engine will be by Kratos subsidiary Florida Turbine Technologies for engine design, General Electric subsidiary GE Additive for additive manufacturing consulting, and StandardAero for maintenance. Impressively experienced folks behind the Symphony engine.
  - hindsightbias 2y ago
    Never heard of Kratos or FTT, they just bought a small turbine maker. GE Additive doesn't sound like they're doing any design work, just manufacturing. None of the majors were interested in making a 35K engine (or apparently modifying their cores with the previous 4 engine design), it would be in a zone between large biz jets and commercial single-isle. The former are hundred million dollar iterations of existing designs, the latter are billion dollar developments now. As this is not a conventional engine, it will cost $1B to certification if they're lucky. I guess it's theoretically possible if KSA is funding it like Lucid and your expectations are way lower than Lucid.
    - meepmorp 2y ago
      > GE Additive doesn't sound like they're doing any design work, just manufacturing. Not even that; per the article it's "manufacturing consulting." Presumably someone else is doing the actual work - I'd guess FTT.
  - 2y ago
Eridrus 2y ago
1. Smart people can learn new things. Musk was also a SWE before starting his companies. I don't know what he demonstrated to convince investors, but if nobody else is pitching you a supersonic jet company and you think a supersonic jet company is a good idea, you don't have the option of a different founder, you have the option of the deal in front of you. 2. People want to work on cool stuff, if you have the cash for it, it's not actually that hard to find talent, particularly if you are working on something without a competitive hiring market (ie jets, not AI atm). 3. I feel pretty confident they can build a plane, there are many people who have worked on planes, many components are off the shelf, etc. The question in my mind is if they can meet somewhere in the middle on sonic boom reduction with regulators in a reasonable amount of time.
- panick21_ 2y ago
  He didn't get investors really, that why he financed it himself. Later he got a few friends to invest. They were able to get some loans based on NASA fixed-price contracts. And then they only raised again later when they were further along, much further then Boom. Building a large jet-liner isn't something many companies have done. Let alone a supersonic one.
IncreasePosts 2y ago
Well, he was an employee at Amazon in 2001, and started a company that was acquired by Groupon in 2012 when they had reams of money to throw around (hope he wasn't paid in stock!). He was a SWE at one point but it seems like his career was more in the executive/leadership space before starting Boom.
josh2600 2y ago
Lots of great founders and engineers have even less pedigree. Ultimately being a great founder requires humility to hire people smarter than yourself, drive to face adversity, and storytelling to build allies + capital. Doesn’t matter if you’re a high school dropout or a PhD if you can’t rally a team to believe in a mission.
- pedalpete 2y ago
  Peter Beck of Rocket Lab comes to mind (recommended read - Ashley Vance's When the Heaven's Went on Sale). Beck didn't attend Uni, was a tool and die maker at Fisher & Paykel (they make fridges and respirators). He then went on and took on the world who said "you can't build a rocket company in New Zealand".
skadamat 2y ago
Even crazier is that Blake is a high school dropout who then went on to work closely with Bezos at Amazon as an SWE: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/27/boom-founder-blake-scholl-from-high-school-dropout-to-supersonic-high-flyer https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/27/boom-founde... Pretty interesting story overall
blamazon 2y ago
2 is pretty easy to explain in my opinion. It's not hard to find people who are passionate about aeronautics who want to build a radical new product, rather than be cog number 13482 in the machine of Airbus making fixtures for testing wing spars or whatever, but there aren't many opportunities to actually do that because the cost barrier is so high. But that rolls around to how is 1 possible, so I see your point there.
Tade0 2y ago
> 1. How did a SWE start and raise funds for this company Back when I was a CompSci student two of my friends did their dormmate's fluid dynamics project overnight in exchange for half a liter of fluid dynamics. Personally I was more into helping my other friend with his analog circuit assignments. What I'm getting at is that Software engineering is not completely removed from the rest of STEM fields.
jimnotgym 2y ago
I get the feeling that companies like this are trying to get a bunch of IP together, and then get acquired by a major player that wants to get ahead.
- pajeets 2y ago
  This seems like the ultimate strategy, not actually ever planning on releasing a well tested supersonic plane and airline but rather selling the dreams for somebody else to take on a highly risky and niche space. If nobody else is doing it already that just means very smart people have crunched numbers at those giant corporations and decided against it. 10 years ago I would've been excited but when I see outlandish valuations and startups without relevant experience in the very field they are going after, I assume bad faith
ein0p 2y ago
Funding: money used to cost next to nothing just a few years ago. Recruiting: where would you rather work, at bureaucratic AF bean counter run Boeing with zero potential upside, or at a startup which even pays more? Can they do it: I think not. Not for any particular technical reason, but due to the higher cost of money, of which they still need a metric ton, and due to how long it all takes. Eventually they’ll pivot into something they can actually do. Probably military.

Neywiny 2y ago

Unsure on funding, but this is a proof of concept. It'll show that the modeling, design practices, manufacturing, etc are working. The "meta" of the plane. For example, while as you point out the air frame of the final production model isn't being tested, they are testing the ability to model the stresses and strains an airframe would undergo throughout the speed envelope. And that's huge

throwaway48476 2y ago
Supersonics are limited by regulation so it's also an attempt to overturn the ban.
- bpodgursky 2y ago
  The US is not the only country in the world, you can always sell internationally in countries with more flexibility.
  - thefounder 2y ago
    I think this is really tough especially since the US is a big market and usually airlines don’t like to buy planes that only fly in specific countries.
  - mandevil 2y ago
    It seems unlikely that airlines are going to lead the way here, just due to economics I think it's going to be the bizjet market leading the way(1). So the obvious choice for domestic flights would be Russia: rich oligarchs, huge country, loose enforcement of laws. Unfortunately for the world that is impossible for the foreseeable future. The next best target is going to be transpac- IFF they can get sufficient range. So wealthy businessmen who have to do a lot of travel between Asia and North America is a reasonable market, so long as they can do supersonic the entire way. If you have to stop and refuel I suspect that the numbers don't work so well. If they can only do a translant without refueling the market is going to be people who want the prestige of having the coolest toys, and Boom is stuck trying to compete with Gulfstream G650 on prestige. 1: R.E.G. Davies explained it best, the problem with commercial supersonic is that the earth is rotating. For commercial airlines, the killer app for selling "expensive but gets you there faster" flights is the ability to get someone to a meeting the same day versus having to travel the day before. If you can save an executive a day that is hugely valuable and worth the company paying a premium for. If you can't, paying extra for a faster flight just isn't worth that much. As a thought experiment, let's say that everything else is exactly the same, but at the end of the runway a Star Trek transporter beams the plane directly to the runway at the destination. So the executive wakes up in NYC at 5:30AM, is out of the house by 6AM, takes an hour to get to the airport, that's 7AM. It's an international flight so they need to go through extra checks, it's 8AM when their flight leaves for Paris. It is beamed directly to CDG, thanks to time zones it's now 2PM. Then it takes another hour to get through passport control etc. and it's 3PM, and another hour for ground travel in Paris and even without the flight taking any time at all it's already 4PM after waking up at 5:30AM. That's tough to make meetings work. (Obviously the return trip can achieve this meeting on day 1 effect, but a commercial airline you can only charge good prices for on half of its legs is going to be tricky to earn its money back.)
    - laidoffamazon 2y ago
      What about the Gulf States? Also lots of money, lots of ocean if they're traveling to South Asia/South East Asia, opportunity for subsonic to Europe, etc
      - 2y ago
- onion2k 2y ago
  They don't need to do that on their own though. They just need customers who want a supersonic plane who are willing to put their backing to overturning the ban. If a few dozen super rich people say they'd be able to create a million jobs by shaving 20 minutes off a trip 'the people' will often listen.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > a few dozen super rich people Overture is an airliner [1]. With a $5k price target (I’d guess $10k), their market is habitual business-class travellers. Not even the low-end private jet crowd. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Overture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Overture
    - vkou 2y ago
      Going after business class travelers in a world with Zoom and 'doing more with less' being the zeitgeist of corporate spending is starting to sound like doubling down on making gold-plated horse buggies five years after the first Model T rolled off the assembly line.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > business class travelers in a world with Zoom and 'doing more with less' being the zeitgeist of corporate spending Not sure if you’ve flown recently, but the front cabin is full, increasingly of leisure travellers who can work remotely. (Not upgrades, either. RASM is up and growing.) Also, Zoom meetings are great for middle management and start-ups. But middle management wasn’t being flown around in business anyway. If you’re pitching a billion-dollar LP, you’re flying to meet them.
        projectazorian 2y ago
        > Not sure if you’ve flown recently, but the front cabin is full, increasingly of leisure travellers who can work remotely. (Not upgrades, either. RASM is up and growing.) It seems like US legacy carriers have gotten a lot better at offering discounted business class fares vs. simply throwing it open to upgrades and standbys when they can't fill the cabin with full fare pax. I suppose maintaining exclusivity is less of a concern these days; they've probably figured out that competing with Middle Eastern and Asian carriers on luxury is a losing battle. > Also, Zoom meetings are great for middle management and start-ups. But middle management wasn’t being flown around in business anyway. Many companies still allow business class for transcontinental flights, for all employees. Big Tech is kind of an exception here from what I've heard. IMO for domestic US travel business is rarely worth the premium anyway vs. premium economy; I'd rather grab a window seat with added legroom and work (or game on my Steam Deck) through the flight. Business class service is often a distraction, and in return you get food that's frequently worse than what you can find in the airport.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> what does this test flight prove? This? Nothing of general consequence. Once XB-1 goes supersonic, which Boom says it’ll do later this year, we’ll get real-world sonic-boom reduction data that could influence the FAA. It will also demonstrate the drag of their nose design, which should inform fuel-burn estimates for their airliner. Following that, the hurdle is the supercruising engine. The XB-1 uses afterburning J85s to go supersonic. Presumably, getting the FAA to flip on overland bans would unlock the capital needed to finish Symphony [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Symphony https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Symphony

jauntywundrkind 2y ago
> Development of the engine will be by Kratos subsidiary Florida Turbine Technologies for engine design, General Electric subsidiary GE Additive for additive manufacturing consulting, and StandardAero for maintenance. Impressively experienced folks behind the Symphony engine.
- hindsightbias 2y ago
  Never heard of Kratos or FTT, they just bought a small turbine maker. GE Additive doesn't sound like they're doing any design work, just manufacturing. None of the majors were interested in making a 35K engine (or apparently modifying their cores with the previous 4 engine design), it would be in a zone between large biz jets and commercial single-isle. The former are hundred million dollar iterations of existing designs, the latter are billion dollar developments now. As this is not a conventional engine, it will cost $1B to certification if they're lucky. I guess it's theoretically possible if KSA is funding it like Lucid and your expectations are way lower than Lucid.
  - meepmorp 2y ago
    > GE Additive doesn't sound like they're doing any design work, just manufacturing. Not even that; per the article it's "manufacturing consulting." Presumably someone else is doing the actual work - I'd guess FTT.
- 2y ago

Eridrus 2y ago

1. Smart people can learn new things. Musk was also a SWE before starting his companies. I don't know what he demonstrated to convince investors, but if nobody else is pitching you a supersonic jet company and you think a supersonic jet company is a good idea, you don't have the option of a different founder, you have the option of the deal in front of you. 2. People want to work on cool stuff, if you have the cash for it, it's not actually that hard to find talent, particularly if you are working on something without a competitive hiring market (ie jets, not AI atm). 3. I feel pretty confident they can build a plane, there are many people who have worked on planes, many components are off the shelf, etc. The question in my mind is if they can meet somewhere in the middle on sonic boom reduction with regulators in a reasonable amount of time.

panick21_ 2y ago
He didn't get investors really, that why he financed it himself. Later he got a few friends to invest. They were able to get some loans based on NASA fixed-price contracts. And then they only raised again later when they were further along, much further then Boom. Building a large jet-liner isn't something many companies have done. Let alone a supersonic one.

IncreasePosts 2y ago

Well, he was an employee at Amazon in 2001, and started a company that was acquired by Groupon in 2012 when they had reams of money to throw around (hope he wasn't paid in stock!). He was a SWE at one point but it seems like his career was more in the executive/leadership space before starting Boom.

josh2600 2y ago

Lots of great founders and engineers have even less pedigree. Ultimately being a great founder requires humility to hire people smarter than yourself, drive to face adversity, and storytelling to build allies + capital. Doesn’t matter if you’re a high school dropout or a PhD if you can’t rally a team to believe in a mission.

pedalpete 2y ago
Peter Beck of Rocket Lab comes to mind (recommended read - Ashley Vance's When the Heaven's Went on Sale). Beck didn't attend Uni, was a tool and die maker at Fisher & Paykel (they make fridges and respirators). He then went on and took on the world who said "you can't build a rocket company in New Zealand".

skadamat 2y ago

Even crazier is that Blake is a high school dropout who then went on to work closely with Bezos at Amazon as an SWE: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/27/boom-founder-blake-scholl-from-high-school-dropout-to-supersonic-high-flyer https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/27/boom-founde... Pretty interesting story overall

blamazon 2y ago

2 is pretty easy to explain in my opinion. It's not hard to find people who are passionate about aeronautics who want to build a radical new product, rather than be cog number 13482 in the machine of Airbus making fixtures for testing wing spars or whatever, but there aren't many opportunities to actually do that because the cost barrier is so high. But that rolls around to how is 1 possible, so I see your point there.

Tade0 2y ago

> 1. How did a SWE start and raise funds for this company Back when I was a CompSci student two of my friends did their dormmate's fluid dynamics project overnight in exchange for half a liter of fluid dynamics. Personally I was more into helping my other friend with his analog circuit assignments. What I'm getting at is that Software engineering is not completely removed from the rest of STEM fields.

jimnotgym 2y ago

I get the feeling that companies like this are trying to get a bunch of IP together, and then get acquired by a major player that wants to get ahead.

pajeets 2y ago
This seems like the ultimate strategy, not actually ever planning on releasing a well tested supersonic plane and airline but rather selling the dreams for somebody else to take on a highly risky and niche space. If nobody else is doing it already that just means very smart people have crunched numbers at those giant corporations and decided against it. 10 years ago I would've been excited but when I see outlandish valuations and startups without relevant experience in the very field they are going after, I assume bad faith

ein0p 2y ago

Funding: money used to cost next to nothing just a few years ago. Recruiting: where would you rather work, at bureaucratic AF bean counter run Boeing with zero potential upside, or at a startup which even pays more? Can they do it: I think not. Not for any particular technical reason, but due to the higher cost of money, of which they still need a metric ton, and due to how long it all takes. Eventually they’ll pivot into something they can actually do. Probably military.