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Intel: New Core Ultra Processors Deliver Breakthrough Performance
- ytch 2y agoIt seems like they didn't mention about process node. Maybe all of its tiles are based on TMSC as some news revealed months ago, so they didn't want to discuss about this?
- greenknight 2y agoWikipedia is saying: Compute tile - TSMC N3B Platform Controller Tile - TSMC N6 Foveros Interposer Base Tile - Intel 22FFL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Lake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Lake
- morepork 2y agoI like AnandTech's tag line (rip): Lunar Lake: Designed By Intel, Built By TSMC (& Assembled By Intel) https://www.anandtech.com/show/21425/intel-lunar-lake-architecture-deep-dive-lion-cove-xe2-and-npu4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/21425/intel-lunar-lake-archit...
- hulitu 2y agoIt works so well for other company: Designed in California, made in China.
- riku_iki 2y ago> TSMC so, intel officially lost fab race..
- hmottestad 2y agohttps://www.anandtech.com/show/16823/intel-accelerated-offensive-process-roadmap-updates-to-10nm-7nm-4nm-3nm-20a-18a-packaging-foundry-emib-foveros https://www.anandtech.com/show/16823/intel-accelerated-offen... According to their own roadmap from a few years ago they should have been able to use their own 20A process node for this CPU.
- biglyburrito 2y agoBreakthrough performance, but requires a 1500W PSU, right?
- phonon 2y agoSnarky and incorrect. This should compare very favorably (performance and efficiency) with Apple's M3 chip. Slightly worse CPU ( https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/compare/7483669?baseline=5221398 https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/compare/7483669?baselin... ), much better GPU and NPU, similar/slightly worse efficiency, 33% more RAM capacity.
- Rinzler89 2y ago>Snarky and incorrect That's like 80% of comments in the thread. Unfortunately HN his is not the place for sane discussion. It's a place for people to vent their Intel hate.
- KingOfCoders 2y agoHN has changed significantly. Some years ago I quoted The Last Psychatrist and we had a discussion about the points. Lately I quoted TLP and was insulted and downvoted. People are not interested in learning new things, but following whatever cult they believe in.
- ruthmarx 2y agoThe question is, how do you treat this sickness in society? Truth doesn't work, so what's the answer?
- KingOfCoders 2y agoI think there are waves in society, the pendulum will swing back. I don't think there is a treatment.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
- replete 2y agoUltra 200V is a good model name. Interested to see how hot they are running them for the performance crown. I suspect we'll still be seeing 275w+
- mkl 2y agoIt's for laptops, so no, it won't be 275W. Peak is 37W: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-core-ultra-200v-lunar-lake-series-launching-september-24th https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-core-ultra-200v-lu...
- replete 2y agoApologies, somehow I didn't finish the comment with ' on desktop', regarding the new arch these are all based on.
- smlacy 2y agoHow many volts is it though?
- knowitnone 2y ago1 volt, 275 amps
- aetherspawn 2y agoI had to double take 200 volts. Edit: According to the other commenter not just me..
- deaddodo 2y agoIs there a 30% improvement in Time-to-Degradation from bad voltage management?
- upon_drumhead 2y agoMaybe they shouldn't be using "Breakthrough Performance" in their ad copy...
- OsrsNeedsf2P 2y ago4/4 sentences in the first paragraph mentioning AI. No real specs. No benchmarks. Yikes.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y agoI read through Samsung’s latest phone presser, more than 80% of the features were AI. The camera features were almost entirely AI additions to zoom and processing. It is going to be like this for a while it seems.
- Mistletoe 2y agoWhat will be next I wonder? I really can’t think of anything. This AI phase feels like grasping at straws like when TV tried to do 3d.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- xwolfi 2y agoYou dont say ! A new fad !
- imglorp 2y agoWe weathered blockchain. We'll get through this one too.
- ForOldHack 2y agoYou think they can combine them?
- SV_BubbleTime 2y agoDisagree. LLMs and diffusion models aren’t going anywhere. As to all the nonsense they’re trying to sell right now, sure; but I think this is an epoch moment like the internet was for most of us.
- FridgeSeal 2y agoUpside: you can have new cores, which are faster. Downside: oh you thought performance, no we meant “even faster to burn out”.
- waynecochran 2y agoIf you would have told me in the 1980's we would still be using x86 based chips in 2024 I would have laughed at you. I bet DOS runs really really fast on them.
- dboreham 2y agoThey're only x86 for marketing purposes.
- waynecochran 2y agoSo I can't run DOS on them in real mode anymore?
- dagmx 2y agoTechnically, I think you can’t anymore? https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/envisioning-future-simplified-architecture.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/t... Intel dropped support for 16 bit booting with their firmware from a few years ago. And with x86S are looking to drop support all together and push people to virtualization
- morepork 2y agoWe did go from 16 to 32 and now to 64 bit, so there have been some significant changes in that time, plus all the new instructions added. But ARM chips are taking over, I think there are now more than 10 ARM chips for every x86 one sold
- ta988 2y agoA lot lot more than a factor 10 if you count microcontrollers.
- Squeeze2664 2y agoThere's also an ARM CPU inside modern x86 processors, little-known fact. Look up AMD's Secure Processor.
- atty 2y agoRather cynical comments so far. I personally am very interested to see how this line of chips does, both in terms of performance (really efficiency, for this sort of chip), and market performance. Hopefully things like Lunar Lake, Arrow Lake, etc, and their 18a node all turn out to be as good as some of the early leaks and press releases make them would indicate, because Intel needs some big wins to get back on track.
- akira2501 2y agoWe spent decades taking leaps and bounds with every chip release. We've now seemingly settled into the incremental improvement phase. The chip makers have responded by burning tons of transistors on extra crap that spends most of it's life powered down. It's hard not to be cynical.
- doublepg23 2y ago? since 2016 Ryzen made intel have to compete again and the 2020 M-series from Apple made day long battery life a reality. CPUs have been very interesting the past 8 years or so.
- akira2501 2y agoAs someone who writes assembly they really haven't been interesting for a long while.
- knowitnone 2y agoYou want a chip that never powers down? Boy, have I got a deal for you. zero transistor waste, zero extra crap just like you asked for. It's a 286. Limited availability so gonna have to ask $5000 per chip.
- akira2501 2y agoThere's nothing wrong with the state of things; however, I'm merely pointing out that the states are significantly different than they used to be and a period of change in expectation might be warranted. CPUs used to be purely about computing power, now they're about computing accessories, which is a different type of market and purchase all together. If you can't acknowledge the differences without becoming irrationally aggressive as if I've insulted you personally then this is not going to be a great conversation.
- 1123581321 2y agoThis might be a better link than Intel's press release page since it contains more context for the packages and technical specs. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-core-ultra-200v-lunar-lake-series-launching-september-24th https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-core-ultra-200v-lu... This is an efficient laptop series with new cores capable of low idle and near idle power draw, with an integrated GPU analogous to AMD's 780M (looking forward to benchmarks.) The AI comments in the PR are due to the package devoting space to a neural processor. They are claiming up to 48 TOPS which exceeds Apple's M4's reported 38 TOPS. Similarly to Apple Silicon ARM, RAM is incorporated into the package. It has 4 p cores and 4 e cores like Apple's M1. It's Intel, so looking forward to benchmarks and real world tests, and they will need to have a good desktop version of these packages later this year, but this new architecture appears to be headed in the right direction, finally.
- bearjaws 2y ago> They are claiming up to 48 TOPS which exceeds Apple's M4's reported 38 TOPS. 38 TOPS at 15w in a tablet* This is up to 48 TOPS at up to 37w Something tells me the full 35w M4 will be somewhere above 48TOPS.. This is still a huge leap forward for Intel, especially integrating memory on die. I doubt it topples M4.
- 1123581321 2y agoGood point. It seemed weird for this to be higher ops/sec and you pointed out why. If it's true that Apple releases the rest of M4 in November, and Intel releases the desktop architecture in October-November, we'll have full comparisons.
- luyu_wu 2y agoWhere are you getting that the NPU draws up to 37W? I believe that is full package power, which Intel states is roughly the combined CPU+GPU+NPU TOPS of 120.
- wmf 2y agoCombined TOPS are a scam. I'm not aware of a single app that can use NPU and GPU together. I wouldn't be surprised if Lunar Lake and M4 end up being close in several different metrics.
- zuminator 2y agoPeak performance is already good enough for most people. It's performance per watt where they still lag. Intel needs a Ballmer-like figure to remind their engineers, "Battery life, battery life, battery life."
- wmf 2y agoThat's exactly what they're claiming to deliver.
- ben-schaaf 2y agoPerformance per watt and battery life are only somewhat related. For laptops idle and sleep power usage are far more important. For example the AMD AI 300 chips have better performance per watt than Snapdragon X Elite but have worse battery life.
- hulitu 2y ago> Peak performance is already good enough for most people Citation needed. My work laptop is still crap when it is time to do real work.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fhdsgbbcaA 2y agoI’ve got an i9-1300K that shit the bed, which I had to replace with AMD. I opened a return ticket with Intel, after a day+ delay they followed up with questions about the BIOS version. The mother board was no longer in service (see AMD above), so I couldn’t immediately answer their question. I Then they closed the support ticket. So I have to start from square one, but I may not bother because the value of the time I’ve wasted on this already (10s of hours), vastly exceeds the cost of replacing all my chips with AMD. There is NOTHING Intel could release that I would buy.
- jeffbee 2y agoThey replied to my ticket asking about the motherboard and bios even though I had mentioned both and more in the initial ticket.
- ta988 2y agoIt may not even be humans that deal with those reports. That may also be why they think everything is fine and their users are dumb.
- fhdsgbbcaA 2y agoAnd it’s not like it isn’t amply established that it is a chip defect already. Decent customer support would just send a swap right away, whatever they gain by not fixing this promptly they lose tenfold on lost future business. Intel is in a death spiral.
- Numerlor 2y agoConfirming settings is standard and I had the same with AMD, the support person has to tick their boxes before they can forward you to RMA
- ForOldHack 2y agoThey lied to you, you lie back to them. Standard practice amoung politicians and lawyers, and now apparently CEOs. Favorite tech support help line: "bring me those cheese balls girl." (QMS Mobile Al.) I would if I could.
- causality0 2y agoSo how long until we find out what fatal hardware shortcut was employed to achieve this performance?
- wtallis 2y agoThe performance isn't anything impressive. Power efficiency is probably a real step forward for Intel, but that's to be expected: they finally, for a moment, stopped believing their own lies about their fab capabilities and outsourced the whole thing to TSMC (except for the passive interposer, which Intel is making in-house). But not the latest and greatest TSMC process; no, this is apparently last year's disappointing (by TSMC standards) and expensive N3B process, not the newer N3E. A few years from now, this will either be an embarrassment Intel tries to hide from the history books (much like how they currently treat Cannonlake), or it'll be looked back upon as a turning point and the beginning of the end of Intel having fabs and chip design in the same company.
- edelbitter 2y agoEasy to miss when the product is named Core: they are really mean cores this time. No SMT.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Sephr 2y agoThis processor series seems great for thin-and-light laptops and handheld gaming devices, yet Intel has decided to only include Thunderbolt 4 instead of Thunderbolt 5. This limits the longevity, upgradability, and relevance of gaming products using Lunar Lake.
- kasabali 2y ago> This limits the longevity, upgradability, and relevance of gaming products using Lunar Lake. Darn thing has RAM in package and your worried not having thunderbolt 5 limits upgradability? :P
- Sephr 2y agoYeah. GPU is the only thing you'd want to upgrade in the near future, and Thunderbolt 4 already throttles performance significantly. These CPU results are pretty formidable to go along with a full-fat GPU over 120/40Gbps Thunderbolt 5.
- kasabali 2y ago> GPU is the only thing you'd want to upgrade in the near future agree to disagree
- hulitu 2y ago> yet Intel has decided to only include Thunderbolt 4 instead of Thunderbolt 5. Well, they weren't sure if Thunderbolt 8 or 9 will be appropiate so they sticked with 4. /s
- mapkkk 2y agoIn the 20 or so years I've owned laptops, I think I only upgraded my memory once or twice, and yet I still can't warm up to integrated memory.
- raffraffraff 2y agoI've done it more than that because I've been buying refurbished or used laptops (generally ThinkPads) and maxing them out cheaply. If I were buying a new flagship machine every 5 years or so I doubt it would matter to me. But that used market is extremely important for keeping this stuff out of landfill for a few more years.
- kasabali 2y agoCounterpoint: I've maxxed out memory in all my laptop and desktop pcs so far, even the machines for secondary uses I max them out using budget parts.
- grujicd 2y agoI've upgraded memory on every laptop I owned. In Serbia (and I assume other smaller markets) you can't just freely configure your laptop, you pick from a selection that was imported, and you typically have to make some kind of compromise between performance, display, keyboard, etc. Having option to upgrade RAM or disk increases your choices in other variables. Last year I bought MacBook Air, and only options available immediatelly were 8/256, 8/512 and 16/256. Since I wanted more RAM and more SSD I had to wait 2 months for delivery.
- PhilipRoman 2y agoFor some reason upgrading memory seems more cost efficient than just buying a better computer. For example I bought a mini PC for 140 EUR and upgraded to 32GB for additional 80 EUR. Meanwhile actual 32GB mini PCs with rougly equivalent CPU start at much higher prices.
- rock_artist 2y agoAhh I miss anandtech already :)
- pier25 2y agoIs the integrated memory only for the laptop chips or do you think this will also come to desktops?
- wmf 2y agoIt's only for low-end laptops.
- KingOfCoders 2y agoWhy is higher performance only for low-end laptops?
- daemonologist 2y agoMy guess would be that it won't - Arrow Lake (different codename ~= significant process difference) is coming later this year for desktop and high TDP mobile and the vibe I'm getting from Intel's materials and media coverage is that it will have conventional non-integrated memory. Plus two of the major advantages of moving the memory onboard are more bandwidth to feed the integrated graphics and lower power consumption, neither of which is much of a concern on desktop.
- tubs 2y agoPoP memory doesn’t really have higher bandwidth.
- clausecker 2y agoNo AVX-512, I think I'll pass.
- qingcharles 2y agoYikes, a 32GB RAM limit seems a bit low in 2024, even for a laptop.
- hmottestad 2y agoCan you get more than that in any thin and light laptop today? Even the macbook air maxes out at 24 GB. Wait for the more power hungry SKUs. Their previous gen supported up to 96 GB of ram on the higher end SKUs.
- dur-randir 2y agoMacbook pro's are up to 128GB.
- davidy123 2y agoThey are not "light," though.
- dur-randir 2y ago1.62kg pro vs 1.24kg air? For me that's the same class.
- davidy123 2y agoA third heavier, and it really feels heavy for its size. It's one of the things that made me decide not to get a Mac. I don't know why they use so much aluminum.
- hmottestad 2y agoThey are super sturdy. It's a single piece of metal that is carved into shape. And aluminium is also very easy to recycle. I personally preferred the design of the first gen retina Macbook Pro. It felt so sleek and thin. The current design is a bit too chunky and boxy for my taste.
- flo123456 2y agoPower consumption sounds really good. Would be great to get this on a micro-ITX board with 4 SATA ports to replace my 10 year old home server. :-)
- hmottestad 2y agoOr just use a laptop and you have a built in UPS and a backup keyboard and display already attached. If you can find one with Thunderbolt you should have the bandwidth for quite a few hard drives.
- high_na_euv 2y agoThis probably will slow down ARM
- ksec 2y agoI want to know its GB6 ST Benchmarks and its Wattage used during the run. i.e I want to compare GB6 ST / Watts figures. GPU / Xe2 is difficult to measure. Because 99% of the value are from Drivers. Either we get a very very wide range of test, or we have to judge it from something else. Cost ~ Perhaps the most important because Qualcomm is extremely price competitive. They are used to competing in Smartphone space which has a very different set of margins. Intel will need to face the new reality the good days aren't coming back. And it has a hardware VVC Decoder! Cant wait to see reviews on it. The problem is Anandtech is gone. I need to figure out which site to go next.
- lincpa 2y ago[dead]