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Honest question - how many other people on HN are in a relationship this fiery? Are you mostly enjoying it or not enjoying it? Do you all believe this is an ine

Honest question - how many other people on HN are in a relationship this fiery? Are you mostly enjoying it or not enjoying it? Do you all believe this is an inevitability for most couples who have just been together for a long time? Context: I just broke up with my girlfriend a few days ago because we would get into arguments regularly around topics that didn’t seem surpassable (values, negative feedback loop insecurity types, etc.) and would leave both of us drained. I just didn’t want that amount of anxiety in my life. I 100% understand that some people are totally cool with it though and don’t have an issue at all.

lucifargundam 2y ago
My wife and I verbally argue nearly daily about many things. But we usually work things out over time. Fast forward much time later-(days, months, etc) such topics 90% of the time are no longer important enough for either of us to really care about talking about them. We're happy _enough_ , what usually impacts us as a couple is the frustrations we individually feel with external factors- not each other. Think of two fish stuck in a bowl they outgrew- any hostilities are not particularly with each other, but the result of their environment. The usual consensus between us is usually summed up to "yeah, this moment is hard for us- but we've been through worse and we'll keep working hard to get to the next stage in life". That being said, we both have our own issues from before we met each other- but we actively want to better ourselves and are trying to overcome our own flaws while accepting the each other as they are. Communication is hard, conflicting thoughts and emotions between cohabitants is hard, but if it were too easy- there might occur a paranoia of it being fake. The ability to resolve conflict and work together as a team is what will ultimately determine the strength and duration of a relationship. That's not something that's easily learned or often taught... and I would not depend on books alone for such life lessons.
- vhiremath4 2y ago
  Yeah great advice. We both really tried. We committed to working through things. We saw a couple’s therapist. We went through some pretty intense ups and downs on both our ends ranging from a death of a very close family member of hers to layoffs at my company and many other things. I just found that, ultimately, it still didn’t feel worth it based on how we would communicate and trigger each other even when we tried. And we would just keep going because we wanted to fight for the relationship, despite it continuing to not make a ton of progress. I guess that’s the “not depending on books alone” part of your comment. It feels like I’ve gained some really important life experience, but I just haven’t fully processed it or been able to make sense of it. Funny enough, I’m making more sense of it with time and with comments like the ones here. Thank you for your comment!
  - binary132 2y ago
    My wife and I had a long few years towards the beginning that felt familiar while reading this, but eventually we both learned to prioritize peace and patience with one another over whatever nonsense seems so important at the moment. If it’s genuinely important, we are both generally now able to restrain ourselves and listen, or get some space while we calm down if it’s not. Not at all to gloat, only to say it is at least possible. I think the passage of some years also helped.
slowhadoken 2y ago
I used to have annoying relationships like this in my early 20’s then I realized I had to stop dating narcissists. Women who put themself at the center of the relationship. A lot of chicks passive aggressively encourage codependency. You can’t make them happy though, it’s a trap. The flip side is not caring at all and they love that too but it’s terrible too. The trick is to be honest from the beginning, set boundaries, and from time to time reconfirm the deal. Also never compromise to the point of helplessness. Do not date and especially never marry a women that doesn’t listen.
- vhiremath4 2y ago
  This is interesting. She would often admit that she was codependent and would forewarn that she knew she was being annoying because of that, but then there would be no actual progress/accountability on getting better. It would be this loop where she’d warn that she was being that way, but then she would go on and create an argument out of it anyway. I definitely don’t think she was a narcissist. She’s such a great human being. I think we both didn’t have the tools to deal with our competing insecurities and how they triggered each other. It was a bit of a shock to me since I had relationships with women who were much more secure in the past, and we never got into these intense of arguments. They were always resolved quickly and it never got disrespectful.
  - slowhadoken 2y ago
    I’m not diagnosing anyone with narcissism per se but women do exhibit narcissistic behaviors. Listen for when they ask you to make them happy. It’s exaggerated during PMS and their period. It takes experience and even then having a backbone and being firm with women is tricky. When women are aggressive they create a hostile environment and play victim. Good or bad it’s all about a feeling of control because friends and family engender learned helplessness in them. If they choose not to take responsibility for their negative behavior then remove yourself from the situation.
datavirtue 2y ago
Depends on a lot. I used to argue about how to raise kids. She always won and I gave up having any say. I had a few siblings and many younger cousins that I watched very often and had been trained on how to raise kids by older people in my "village." I was confident and had a lot of tools under my belt. She floundered and insisted on going with her gut reaction on everything. Zero siblings, cousins, experience or training. Twenty years later she is having breakdowns about the kids sitting around the house fucking off and pissing their life away. Not helping with shit unless harassed. Ignoring her every word. She pleads with me for help, and I just shrug and say: "What are you going to do honey? It is what it is." I tried to prevent this. Then I go on with my life and prioritize my own enjoyment. All I ever wanted to do was give them serious responsibilies around the home, but she always rebuffed it. Now it's too late. You can't tell anyone anything.
- vhiremath4 2y ago
  I’m very sorry to hear that things have led down this path. I hope for nothing but the best for you, her, and your kids. Do you feel like, if you could go back, you would rather end things knowing there were this large of disagreements on the fundamentals of how you would raise your kids? Or did you guys not fully broach these topics before getting married? Obviously, no pressure to answer here. These are sensitive questions to answer and put out on the internet.
  - datavirtue 2y ago
    Ha ha, it just is what it is. I chose not to strangle her twenty years ago. Things are good. I really don't understand how people think they can engineer themselves into some type of perfect relationship. You could easily end up miserable either way. My wife has so many good qualities. Everyone loves her and she is obsessed with me.
drekipus 2y ago
I argue with my wife, maybe, once a quarter. Together for 6 years. The important factor is working together to work things out, as one of the other commenters said. But I don't believe arguments should be considered normal. We stop 100% of the time and say "ok hang on, we've got different ideas here, let's figure something out" - sometimes we will have to leave it and come back to it later. I was abused by boomer parents early similar to the OP. And I am not going to continue that for my family or kids. My wife hasn't been abused but she's woken up to how awful her own parents are at arguing
Toutouxc 2y ago
I left a 6 year relationship full of tiny disagreements about tiny inconsequential things, that would regularly snowball into whiny accusations (on her side) and feelings of betrayal on both sides. I’ve read some books about this since and I’m pretty sure I’d be able to handle most of it much better, but I’m also sure I wouldn’t want to end up in a similar relationship again. No matter how tiny, disagreements are still disagreements and take energy and time to resolve. I’m willing to invest some (quite a lot actually) into a relationship, but not all of it. I’ve been with a different girl for five years now, we got married this year and it’s been a breeze so far. We’ve both made some mistakes (like regular everyday stuff) in those five years, but AFAIK we still deeply respect and love each other. The difference is night and day.
- vhiremath4 2y ago
  I think this basically sums up a lot of our relationship. Lots of arguments. Usually over small stuff but some big things. I ultimately didn’t feel I wanted to invest this much energy into making the relationship work, but she did and felt like I was giving up and thought I was “stronger than that”. I totally understand where she’s coming from being the person who seems to have been less affected by the arguments, but I just had to make a call for myself at the end of the day.
justforprivate 2y ago
Disagreements of course come up, but it's not an inevitability to descend into constant daily arguments about things. Been with my wife for 13 years, we rarely argue, but: * we both have Buddhist based meditation practices we've cultivated individually for years * we both have been to therapy individually * we both have journaling practices to work through interior things. * we have physical and artistic practices * we take psychedelics together once or twice a year The first couple years living together can be a little tough, especially if you've never done it with another partner. We fought more earlier on, before she started her meditation practice and before I went to therapy. As long as both people are working on themselves and the relationship I don't think there's a reason to descend into the stereotypical bickering married couple trope though.
anal_reactor 2y ago
I am such a person. I can turn anything into an argument. I know that this makes me difficult to be around, but it's incredibly hard for me to stop being completely focused on myself. I can't just decide "from now on I'll completely change my personality for the better". In my relationships, I not only caused lots of silly arguments, but I also attracted people who, for one reason or another, were an endless source of frustration. When I look at relationships around me, most of them suck. There are some good ones, but they're rare, and it's absolutely essential that both parties of a relationship are chill people in general, which is rare.
imglorp 2y ago
Maybe they have a stable relationship because OP has an outlet to explore and journal their thoughts.
- vhiremath4 2y ago
  For sure. I have friends who are in long term relationships and very happy and they bicker a lot. I have friends who never fight or raise their voices. Compatibility of sensitivity is a real thing.
_yb2s 2y ago
You can pretty much eliminate angry disagreements in a relationship with assertive communication techniques- I recommend the book “when I say no I feel guilty.” I am okay if my wife disagrees with me on things- I don’t really care to convince her, there is usually no point in (or possibly of) doing so. If there is something that requires an actual real world action- and it is really important to me, she will concede even without agreeing because she cares about me, and I would do the same for her. Disagreements over simple life things can be a fun subject for light teasing, flirting, and joking that help you grow closer. I think a lot of people confuse honoring and validating each others emotions with matters of fact and opinion. People argue about facts they don’t actually care about, it isn’t usually what the conflict is really even about!
- codr7 2y ago
  This is key. Not agreeing is not the same as not listening or not caring.
- vhiremath4 2y ago
  Just ordered this book. Gracias!
unyttigfjelltol 2y ago
It's less whether you argue and more that you continue to respect one another mutually even in the heat of discussion, and converge well together later.[1] [1] https://time.com/6693412/relationship-advice-fights-julie-john-gottman/ https://time.com/6693412/relationship-advice-fights-julie-jo...
seszett 2y ago
> how many other people on HN are in a relationship this fiery? I'm not in such a relationship anymore. > Are you mostly enjoying it or not enjoying it? I never enjoyed it at the time. > Do you all believe this is an inevitability for most couples who have just been together for a long time? Not at all, I have since found that healthy relationships without silly, draining arguments are absolutely possible and enjoyable.
jraph 2y ago
> values, negative feedback loop insecurity types These seem very hard to handle indeed, and probably nothing like the little arguments written on that page, at least at the top (I haven't read everything). There are definitely people who like the little arguments. If you trust each others, you know it's not important. It must spice things up. It's part of the fun. It builds complicity. It's probably a bit like teasing. At least, that's how I feel when reading that page. The little arguments become serious when they are about stuff that cause frustration to the level that the frustration grows (slowly) over time and becomes unbearable. Those things are to discuss seriously. You can't have such funny little arguments on things that make you uneasy. I'm not currently experiencing much of such little arguments, not sure we work like this, but I like a little teasing for sure. Good luck and take care.
- pas 2y ago
  the one about presents seems very unhealthy. (and in general the whole situation.) the depicted Margaret character seems to be very demanding, arbitrary, vindictive, petty, has double standards, has self-control issues (kicking the driver's seat from behind, narrating movies[5], offering unsolicited remarks[4]), she does not seem to recognize boundaries (asking him during movies), she seems to be sexually promiscuous[3], extreme insecurity issues[2], issues with attention and focus[1], ... and so on. I tend to believe that Mil embellishes the stories, also he seems to have the kind of sense of humor that can withstand, thrive on, and mayhaps even require this level of interpersonal intensity. Also he seems much older, and she seems much hotter. So maybe "it" equals out. . The novel[6], that eventually sprung out from the site, seems to be pretty okay, a bit of absurdist-realist comedy, maybe like Hugh Laurie's The Gun Seller light edition. . . [1] "Margret jack-knifes from argument to argument, jigs direction randomly and erratically like a shoal of Argument Fish being followed by a Truth Shark." [2] "Those trousers make your backside look fat" [3] photo album in Berlin at a friend, "shots of Margret naked" [4] see the entry with "The television is showing Baywatch." [5] "when she furnishes me, deaf to my pleading, with her commentary" [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_My_Girlfriend_and_I_Have_Argued_About https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_My_Girlfriend_and_I_Hav...
- vhiremath4 2y ago
  This is such a great distinction (teasing vs. built resentment). I think there was definitely mounting resentment from both ends (and I’m not a saint/the victim here). There were also arguments we’d have where both of us didn’t take things seriously and it was just fun/added some spice. Thank you!
chankstein38 2y ago
I thought this was odd. My partner and I have disagreements at times but it's rare and mostly due to the fact that we're basically the same person. We have been together 24/7 for almost 2 years and hang out every night and I still can't wait for my shift to end so I can go spend more time with her!

lucifargundam 2y ago

My wife and I verbally argue nearly daily about many things. But we usually work things out over time. Fast forward much time later-(days, months, etc) such topics 90% of the time are no longer important enough for either of us to really care about talking about them. We're happy _enough_ , what usually impacts us as a couple is the frustrations we individually feel with external factors- not each other. Think of two fish stuck in a bowl they outgrew- any hostilities are not particularly with each other, but the result of their environment. The usual consensus between us is usually summed up to "yeah, this moment is hard for us- but we've been through worse and we'll keep working hard to get to the next stage in life". That being said, we both have our own issues from before we met each other- but we actively want to better ourselves and are trying to overcome our own flaws while accepting the each other as they are. Communication is hard, conflicting thoughts and emotions between cohabitants is hard, but if it were too easy- there might occur a paranoia of it being fake. The ability to resolve conflict and work together as a team is what will ultimately determine the strength and duration of a relationship. That's not something that's easily learned or often taught... and I would not depend on books alone for such life lessons.

vhiremath4 2y ago
Yeah great advice. We both really tried. We committed to working through things. We saw a couple’s therapist. We went through some pretty intense ups and downs on both our ends ranging from a death of a very close family member of hers to layoffs at my company and many other things. I just found that, ultimately, it still didn’t feel worth it based on how we would communicate and trigger each other even when we tried. And we would just keep going because we wanted to fight for the relationship, despite it continuing to not make a ton of progress. I guess that’s the “not depending on books alone” part of your comment. It feels like I’ve gained some really important life experience, but I just haven’t fully processed it or been able to make sense of it. Funny enough, I’m making more sense of it with time and with comments like the ones here. Thank you for your comment!
- binary132 2y ago
  My wife and I had a long few years towards the beginning that felt familiar while reading this, but eventually we both learned to prioritize peace and patience with one another over whatever nonsense seems so important at the moment. If it’s genuinely important, we are both generally now able to restrain ourselves and listen, or get some space while we calm down if it’s not. Not at all to gloat, only to say it is at least possible. I think the passage of some years also helped.

slowhadoken 2y ago

I used to have annoying relationships like this in my early 20’s then I realized I had to stop dating narcissists. Women who put themself at the center of the relationship. A lot of chicks passive aggressively encourage codependency. You can’t make them happy though, it’s a trap. The flip side is not caring at all and they love that too but it’s terrible too. The trick is to be honest from the beginning, set boundaries, and from time to time reconfirm the deal. Also never compromise to the point of helplessness. Do not date and especially never marry a women that doesn’t listen.

vhiremath4 2y ago
This is interesting. She would often admit that she was codependent and would forewarn that she knew she was being annoying because of that, but then there would be no actual progress/accountability on getting better. It would be this loop where she’d warn that she was being that way, but then she would go on and create an argument out of it anyway. I definitely don’t think she was a narcissist. She’s such a great human being. I think we both didn’t have the tools to deal with our competing insecurities and how they triggered each other. It was a bit of a shock to me since I had relationships with women who were much more secure in the past, and we never got into these intense of arguments. They were always resolved quickly and it never got disrespectful.
- slowhadoken 2y ago
  I’m not diagnosing anyone with narcissism per se but women do exhibit narcissistic behaviors. Listen for when they ask you to make them happy. It’s exaggerated during PMS and their period. It takes experience and even then having a backbone and being firm with women is tricky. When women are aggressive they create a hostile environment and play victim. Good or bad it’s all about a feeling of control because friends and family engender learned helplessness in them. If they choose not to take responsibility for their negative behavior then remove yourself from the situation.

datavirtue 2y ago

Depends on a lot. I used to argue about how to raise kids. She always won and I gave up having any say. I had a few siblings and many younger cousins that I watched very often and had been trained on how to raise kids by older people in my "village." I was confident and had a lot of tools under my belt. She floundered and insisted on going with her gut reaction on everything. Zero siblings, cousins, experience or training. Twenty years later she is having breakdowns about the kids sitting around the house fucking off and pissing their life away. Not helping with shit unless harassed. Ignoring her every word. She pleads with me for help, and I just shrug and say: "What are you going to do honey? It is what it is." I tried to prevent this. Then I go on with my life and prioritize my own enjoyment. All I ever wanted to do was give them serious responsibilies around the home, but she always rebuffed it. Now it's too late. You can't tell anyone anything.

vhiremath4 2y ago
I’m very sorry to hear that things have led down this path. I hope for nothing but the best for you, her, and your kids. Do you feel like, if you could go back, you would rather end things knowing there were this large of disagreements on the fundamentals of how you would raise your kids? Or did you guys not fully broach these topics before getting married? Obviously, no pressure to answer here. These are sensitive questions to answer and put out on the internet.
- datavirtue 2y ago
  Ha ha, it just is what it is. I chose not to strangle her twenty years ago. Things are good. I really don't understand how people think they can engineer themselves into some type of perfect relationship. You could easily end up miserable either way. My wife has so many good qualities. Everyone loves her and she is obsessed with me.

drekipus 2y ago

I argue with my wife, maybe, once a quarter. Together for 6 years. The important factor is working together to work things out, as one of the other commenters said. But I don't believe arguments should be considered normal. We stop 100% of the time and say "ok hang on, we've got different ideas here, let's figure something out" - sometimes we will have to leave it and come back to it later. I was abused by boomer parents early similar to the OP. And I am not going to continue that for my family or kids. My wife hasn't been abused but she's woken up to how awful her own parents are at arguing

Toutouxc 2y ago

I left a 6 year relationship full of tiny disagreements about tiny inconsequential things, that would regularly snowball into whiny accusations (on her side) and feelings of betrayal on both sides. I’ve read some books about this since and I’m pretty sure I’d be able to handle most of it much better, but I’m also sure I wouldn’t want to end up in a similar relationship again. No matter how tiny, disagreements are still disagreements and take energy and time to resolve. I’m willing to invest some (quite a lot actually) into a relationship, but not all of it. I’ve been with a different girl for five years now, we got married this year and it’s been a breeze so far. We’ve both made some mistakes (like regular everyday stuff) in those five years, but AFAIK we still deeply respect and love each other. The difference is night and day.

vhiremath4 2y ago
I think this basically sums up a lot of our relationship. Lots of arguments. Usually over small stuff but some big things. I ultimately didn’t feel I wanted to invest this much energy into making the relationship work, but she did and felt like I was giving up and thought I was “stronger than that”. I totally understand where she’s coming from being the person who seems to have been less affected by the arguments, but I just had to make a call for myself at the end of the day.

justforprivate 2y ago

Disagreements of course come up, but it's not an inevitability to descend into constant daily arguments about things. Been with my wife for 13 years, we rarely argue, but: * we both have Buddhist based meditation practices we've cultivated individually for years * we both have been to therapy individually * we both have journaling practices to work through interior things. * we have physical and artistic practices * we take psychedelics together once or twice a year The first couple years living together can be a little tough, especially if you've never done it with another partner. We fought more earlier on, before she started her meditation practice and before I went to therapy. As long as both people are working on themselves and the relationship I don't think there's a reason to descend into the stereotypical bickering married couple trope though.

anal_reactor 2y ago

I am such a person. I can turn anything into an argument. I know that this makes me difficult to be around, but it's incredibly hard for me to stop being completely focused on myself. I can't just decide "from now on I'll completely change my personality for the better". In my relationships, I not only caused lots of silly arguments, but I also attracted people who, for one reason or another, were an endless source of frustration. When I look at relationships around me, most of them suck. There are some good ones, but they're rare, and it's absolutely essential that both parties of a relationship are chill people in general, which is rare.

imglorp 2y ago

Maybe they have a stable relationship because OP has an outlet to explore and journal their thoughts.

vhiremath4 2y ago
For sure. I have friends who are in long term relationships and very happy and they bicker a lot. I have friends who never fight or raise their voices. Compatibility of sensitivity is a real thing.

_yb2s 2y ago

You can pretty much eliminate angry disagreements in a relationship with assertive communication techniques- I recommend the book “when I say no I feel guilty.” I am okay if my wife disagrees with me on things- I don’t really care to convince her, there is usually no point in (or possibly of) doing so. If there is something that requires an actual real world action- and it is really important to me, she will concede even without agreeing because she cares about me, and I would do the same for her. Disagreements over simple life things can be a fun subject for light teasing, flirting, and joking that help you grow closer. I think a lot of people confuse honoring and validating each others emotions with matters of fact and opinion. People argue about facts they don’t actually care about, it isn’t usually what the conflict is really even about!

codr7 2y ago
This is key. Not agreeing is not the same as not listening or not caring.
vhiremath4 2y ago
Just ordered this book. Gracias!

unyttigfjelltol 2y ago

It's less whether you argue and more that you continue to respect one another mutually even in the heat of discussion, and converge well together later.[1] [1] https://time.com/6693412/relationship-advice-fights-julie-john-gottman/ https://time.com/6693412/relationship-advice-fights-julie-jo...

seszett 2y ago

> how many other people on HN are in a relationship this fiery? I'm not in such a relationship anymore. > Are you mostly enjoying it or not enjoying it? I never enjoyed it at the time. > Do you all believe this is an inevitability for most couples who have just been together for a long time? Not at all, I have since found that healthy relationships without silly, draining arguments are absolutely possible and enjoyable.

jraph 2y ago

> values, negative feedback loop insecurity types These seem very hard to handle indeed, and probably nothing like the little arguments written on that page, at least at the top (I haven't read everything). There are definitely people who like the little arguments. If you trust each others, you know it's not important. It must spice things up. It's part of the fun. It builds complicity. It's probably a bit like teasing. At least, that's how I feel when reading that page. The little arguments become serious when they are about stuff that cause frustration to the level that the frustration grows (slowly) over time and becomes unbearable. Those things are to discuss seriously. You can't have such funny little arguments on things that make you uneasy. I'm not currently experiencing much of such little arguments, not sure we work like this, but I like a little teasing for sure. Good luck and take care.

pas 2y ago
the one about presents seems very unhealthy. (and in general the whole situation.) the depicted Margaret character seems to be very demanding, arbitrary, vindictive, petty, has double standards, has self-control issues (kicking the driver's seat from behind, narrating movies[5], offering unsolicited remarks[4]), she does not seem to recognize boundaries (asking him during movies), she seems to be sexually promiscuous[3], extreme insecurity issues[2], issues with attention and focus[1], ... and so on. I tend to believe that Mil embellishes the stories, also he seems to have the kind of sense of humor that can withstand, thrive on, and mayhaps even require this level of interpersonal intensity. Also he seems much older, and she seems much hotter. So maybe "it" equals out. . The novel[6], that eventually sprung out from the site, seems to be pretty okay, a bit of absurdist-realist comedy, maybe like Hugh Laurie's The Gun Seller light edition. . . [1] "Margret jack-knifes from argument to argument, jigs direction randomly and erratically like a shoal of Argument Fish being followed by a Truth Shark." [2] "Those trousers make your backside look fat" [3] photo album in Berlin at a friend, "shots of Margret naked" [4] see the entry with "The television is showing Baywatch." [5] "when she furnishes me, deaf to my pleading, with her commentary" [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_My_Girlfriend_and_I_Have_Argued_About https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_My_Girlfriend_and_I_Hav...
vhiremath4 2y ago
This is such a great distinction (teasing vs. built resentment). I think there was definitely mounting resentment from both ends (and I’m not a saint/the victim here). There were also arguments we’d have where both of us didn’t take things seriously and it was just fun/added some spice. Thank you!

chankstein38 2y ago

I thought this was odd. My partner and I have disagreements at times but it's rare and mostly due to the fact that we're basically the same person. We have been together 24/7 for almost 2 years and hang out every night and I still can't wait for my shift to end so I can go spend more time with her!