6 ms·

What cost is involved in moving electricity around? The sun is always shining somewhere.

by mfa1999 2y ago

precommunicator 2y ago
Transmission line losses, which are pretty high.
pjc50 2y ago
Grid building is fairly expensive and people hate seeing pylons. You can bury the cable, but that makes it even more expensive. Still, it's going to have to happen. (At some point we might get a cheap flow battery or CO2-to-fuels system going, which lets you literally put electricity in pipes and tanks)
BjoernKW 2y ago
This is where superconductors come into play, i.e. materials that allow you to move electricity at no loss due to electrical resistance. The problem with those (traditionally, at least) has been that they usually operate at very low temperatures, which of course again require energy to be maintained. A room-temperature, ambient-pressure superconductor would be the breakthrough required for doing this at scale. This of course would still require significant infrastructure investment.
- imtringued 2y ago
  A room-temperature, ambient-pressure, non-ceramic superconductor would be the breakthrough, because you need your superconductor cable to be transportable, repairable and not be a kilometer long piece of ceramic with zero tolerance for defects.
Tade0 2y ago
A kilometre of a 1GW HVDC ground line costs $0.7-1mln. Double or triple that for sea lines[0]. China has had 2000km+ lines online for years now, so there's precedent. Not for solar specifically, but plainly to connect distant grids. We have huge fiber optic connectors wrapping the planet, so there's precedent here as well. Overall a global solar grid is technically feasible and actually not terribly expensive, but we need to solve the political issues preventing it first. EDIT [0] for comparison highways cost $4mln per kilometre in the US and double to triple that in the EU.
bigiain 2y ago
There's a project here proposing to transport 1.75GW across 5000km between Australia and Singapore. The project is reported as costing $30 billion (22.6 billion USD) - but I think that also includes a 12,000 hectare solar farm and a bias battery as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-Asia_Power_Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-Asia_Power_Link
bryanlarsen 2y ago
With exceptions, it's cheaper to use batteries and overbuilt capacity to move electricity in time than it is to use HVDC lines to move it in space. https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2020/12/27/the-future-of-electricity-is-local/ https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2020/12/27/the-future-of-...

What cost is involved in moving electricity around? The sun is always shining somewhere.

Transmission line losses, which are pretty high.

Grid building is fairly expensive and people hate seeing pylons. You can bury the cable, but that makes it even more expensive. Still, it's going to have to happen. (At some point we might get a cheap flow battery or CO2-to-fuels system going, which lets you literally put electricity in pipes and tanks)

BjoernKW 2y ago

This is where superconductors come into play, i.e. materials that allow you to move electricity at no loss due to electrical resistance. The problem with those (traditionally, at least) has been that they usually operate at very low temperatures, which of course again require energy to be maintained. A room-temperature, ambient-pressure superconductor would be the breakthrough required for doing this at scale. This of course would still require significant infrastructure investment.

imtringued 2y ago
A room-temperature, ambient-pressure, non-ceramic superconductor would be the breakthrough, because you need your superconductor cable to be transportable, repairable and not be a kilometer long piece of ceramic with zero tolerance for defects.

Tade0 2y ago

A kilometre of a 1GW HVDC ground line costs $0.7-1mln. Double or triple that for sea lines[0]. China has had 2000km+ lines online for years now, so there's precedent. Not for solar specifically, but plainly to connect distant grids. We have huge fiber optic connectors wrapping the planet, so there's precedent here as well. Overall a global solar grid is technically feasible and actually not terribly expensive, but we need to solve the political issues preventing it first. EDIT [0] for comparison highways cost $4mln per kilometre in the US and double to triple that in the EU.

bigiain 2y ago

There's a project here proposing to transport 1.75GW across 5000km between Australia and Singapore. The project is reported as costing $30 billion (22.6 billion USD) - but I think that also includes a 12,000 hectare solar farm and a bias battery as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-Asia_Power_Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-Asia_Power_Link

bryanlarsen 2y ago

With exceptions, it's cheaper to use batteries and overbuilt capacity to move electricity in time than it is to use HVDC lines to move it in space. https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2020/12/27/the-future-of-electricity-is-local/ https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2020/12/27/the-future-of-...