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I haven't read Seeing Like a State, but I find the list of legibility criteria to be very interesting, purely because of how many don't apply here in the United
by cjs_ac 2y ago
I haven't read Seeing Like a State, but I find the list of legibility criteria to be very interesting, purely because of how many don't apply here in the United Kingdom.
> Lives at a particular location, and has an exact address.
A person in the UK may live at any natural number of places, including zero. The NHS has specific provisions for providing healthcare to the homeless. At the other end of the spectrum, landowners with property in different parliamentary constituencies were entitled to vote in all of those constituencies until the passage of the Representation of the People Act 1948.
> Has a specific name.
In the UK, a person has no specific legal name. A person may use any name they wish, including multiple names, without the need for a deed poll or any other legal instrument.
> Earns money in a currency which the government understands, and pays taxes in it.
The UK has a thriving (although regulated) cryptocurrency sector. Tax policy is a little lax, and it's very easy for someone to live in the UK unbanked and untaxed, which is probably a contributing factor to so many irregular immigrants moving specifically to the UK, rather than remaining in the first 'safe country'.
> Was born on a particular date, and can thus be called up for jury duty or conscription.
The UK is good at tracking when and where people were born, and to whom, but someone can slip through the cracks of the system if they put a little effort in to avoid service to the state.
> Doesn’t steal other people’s goods, trespass on their land, injure them, or kill them. (Except as a result of the aforementioned conscription situation.)
Due to reductions in policing budgets, shoplifting is currently rife and, when the value is low, not addressed, but this is a temporary state of affairs. Trespass is generally a civil matter, and is only criminal in specific situations, such as when the trespass is into a home.
> Speaks a language intelligible to the government employees who are responsible for checking all of the above.
The UK's only official language is Welsh, and Welsh only has that status in Wales. Some legislation is written in Norman French.
On the other hand, I grew up in Australia, where that list very much applies, because Australia is a nation that learnt civilisation from prison guards. It's not a bad list - the UK is just a very peculiar place.
- narski 2y ago>shoplifting is currently rife and, when the value is low, not addressed, but this is a temporary state of affairs. Remember though, how often in the history of states, the temporary cannily usurps permanence. It's hard to tell what's a brief deviation from the mean, rather than an early glimpse into the new normal. I have no idea what I'm talking about, either in terms of understanding society nor the UK specifically, but your phrasing tickled my paranoia about that phrase a sort of famous last words for civilizations, lol.
- Onavo 2y agoThen why is the UK still so authoritarian about free speech and insisting on policing online activity?
- actionfromafar 2y agoBecause the UK is very peculiar?
- Onavo 2y agoIndeed, the perennial excuse of every authoritarian; they are "#Not like other countries".
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- patcon 2y agoAh interesting. I'm now colliding this thought with how unnerved I was by the tacit acceptance of very visible elements of the surveillance state in UK. I wonder if the state needed different tactics to make the population legible, and so (without express intention) needed to recruit citizens as more willing participants to reach the functional level of legibility...
- cjs_ac 2y agoIt's well known that about a third of all traffic speed cameras in the UK are decoys; I assume that something similar goes on with CCTV cameras. The British state is administered on the principle of maximum effect for least effort and least cost. The Empire was administered in the same way, although, as Lord North discovered, that principle has limits. The surveillance state is very visible because its primary purpose is deterrence, not solving crime at scale. The population isn't made legible; it's made to think that it's legible. A few years ago, there was a lot of media coverage about 'super recognisers'[0]. This is because CCTV footage has to be reviewed by humans. There's a reality TV series that shows how much human work has to go into turning the information from the surveillance state into actual outcomes on the ground.[1] It's not an everyday thing. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_recogniser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_recogniser [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunted_(2015_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunted_(2015_TV_series)
- anitil 2y agoThe book does talk about various exceptions, and spends a lot of time talking about how exceptions in some way represent alternative power structures. Having said that, I think much of your list while true would be relatively uncommon (for location, name, currency, birth date and crime) though I can't speak to your last point which is surprising to me!