6 ms·

Starlink tells Brazil regulator it will not comply with X suspension

25 points by jmsflknr 2y ago

ngetchell 2y ago
This is asinine. Could you imagine a utility in the USA breaking the law like this?
- sweettea 2y ago
  Sonic.net or various other ISPs? https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/21/4541342/isp-owner-describes-nsa-box-that-spied-on-customers https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/21/4541342/isp-owner-describ...
andrewstuart 2y ago
So Musk company says it will not Block usage of other Musk company.
- jowea 2y ago
  It's not 100% Musk owned, so I got curious if the other owners could boot Musk over this, but Wikipedia says ownership is "Elon Musk (42% equity; 79% voting control)". Could Musk be vulnerable to a suit alleging he is unduly benefiting another company he owns instead of the interests of SpaceX?
  - nradov 2y ago
    There is virtually zero chance that a US court would find Elon Musk or any of his corporate entities liable in a hypothetical suit brought by SpaceX minority shareholders alleging some sort of conflict of interest. Brazil is a very minor market for SpaceX, and legal precedents gives very wide latitude to corporate management for these kind of decisions.
  - Veedrac 2y ago
    What motive does SpaceX have to block X though Starlink? Their assets are frozen, they're operating in Brazil for free.
    - guax 2y ago
      What motive SpaceX would have to follow the law and distance itself from X? Idk man, maybe a responsible management.
    - jowea 2y ago
      Exactly, if SpaceX obeys the court they can get their assets unfrozen and back to making a profit.
      - Veedrac 2y ago
        This didn't seem possible to me? SpaceX's assets weren't frozen because SpaceX did anything wrong, they were frozen to penalize the majority stakeholder. Said stakeholder has at this point approximately zero chance of an amicable resolution in Brazilian courts, so SpaceX acting at distance wouldn't get them their assets back.
        jowea 2y ago
        > they were frozen to penalize the majority stakeholder I'm no lawyer but from what I gather there's two issues with Starlink, one where they had their bank accounts blocked to make them pay for Twitter's fines, which is highly controversial and they could appeal it, and one where they could lose their operating license for openly refusing the general order to all ISPs in Brazil to block Twitter. If they blocked Twitter and appealed on the quite reasonable grounds that they are different companies they would have a much better chance of returning to normal operations in Brazil.
        Veedrac 2y ago
        SpaceX's Starlink assets were frozen before X was banned.
jimrandomh 2y ago
The Reuters article says: > "The decision to freeze Starlink's accounts stems from a separate dispute over unpaid fines X was ordered to pay due to its failure to turn over some documents." This is deliberately misleading. The dispute stems from X having revealed a history of the government of Brazil demanding it censor and deanonymize political opponents and people alleging corruption, and refusing to continue doing so.
- linotype 2y ago
  So are they paying their fines or not? Disagreeing with censorship doesn’t mean you get to not adhere to the law.
  - nradov 2y ago
    If they no longer operate in a particular country then that means they get to not adhere to the law.
    - jowea 2y ago
      Starlink definitively operates in Brazil as of right now, Internet service works (including ex-Twitter).
      - nradov 2y ago
        Just because you can pick up a satellite signal in a certain country doesn't mean that the satellite operator is operating (from a legal perspective) in that country. A country's airspace legally extends only up to a certain altitude. In theory Brazil could try to force SpaceX to stop by taking legal action through the US court system, or administrative action through the international bodies that coordinate satellite communications frequencies and orbits, but that would be unlikely to work.
        guax 2y ago
        Brazil is not downing satellites. It's blocking bank accounts. They can issue other penalties like revoke isp licenses, I wonder if you can also block traffic from that network (imagine you cannot access your online banking because your provider is illegal), but hey, at least you can still go on X.
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41423518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41423518

25 points by jmsflknr 2y ago

ngetchell 2y ago

This is asinine. Could you imagine a utility in the USA breaking the law like this?

sweettea 2y ago
Sonic.net or various other ISPs? https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/21/4541342/isp-owner-describes-nsa-box-that-spied-on-customers https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/21/4541342/isp-owner-describ...

andrewstuart 2y ago

So Musk company says it will not Block usage of other Musk company.

jowea 2y ago
It's not 100% Musk owned, so I got curious if the other owners could boot Musk over this, but Wikipedia says ownership is "Elon Musk (42% equity; 79% voting control)". Could Musk be vulnerable to a suit alleging he is unduly benefiting another company he owns instead of the interests of SpaceX?
- nradov 2y ago
  There is virtually zero chance that a US court would find Elon Musk or any of his corporate entities liable in a hypothetical suit brought by SpaceX minority shareholders alleging some sort of conflict of interest. Brazil is a very minor market for SpaceX, and legal precedents gives very wide latitude to corporate management for these kind of decisions.
- Veedrac 2y ago
  What motive does SpaceX have to block X though Starlink? Their assets are frozen, they're operating in Brazil for free.
  - guax 2y ago
    What motive SpaceX would have to follow the law and distance itself from X? Idk man, maybe a responsible management.
  - jowea 2y ago
    Exactly, if SpaceX obeys the court they can get their assets unfrozen and back to making a profit.
    - Veedrac 2y ago
      This didn't seem possible to me? SpaceX's assets weren't frozen because SpaceX did anything wrong, they were frozen to penalize the majority stakeholder. Said stakeholder has at this point approximately zero chance of an amicable resolution in Brazilian courts, so SpaceX acting at distance wouldn't get them their assets back.
      - jowea 2y ago
        > they were frozen to penalize the majority stakeholder I'm no lawyer but from what I gather there's two issues with Starlink, one where they had their bank accounts blocked to make them pay for Twitter's fines, which is highly controversial and they could appeal it, and one where they could lose their operating license for openly refusing the general order to all ISPs in Brazil to block Twitter. If they blocked Twitter and appealed on the quite reasonable grounds that they are different companies they would have a much better chance of returning to normal operations in Brazil.
        Veedrac 2y ago
        SpaceX's Starlink assets were frozen before X was banned.

jimrandomh 2y ago

The Reuters article says: > "The decision to freeze Starlink's accounts stems from a separate dispute over unpaid fines X was ordered to pay due to its failure to turn over some documents." This is deliberately misleading. The dispute stems from X having revealed a history of the government of Brazil demanding it censor and deanonymize political opponents and people alleging corruption, and refusing to continue doing so.

linotype 2y ago
So are they paying their fines or not? Disagreeing with censorship doesn’t mean you get to not adhere to the law.
- nradov 2y ago
  If they no longer operate in a particular country then that means they get to not adhere to the law.
  - jowea 2y ago
    Starlink definitively operates in Brazil as of right now, Internet service works (including ex-Twitter).
    - nradov 2y ago
      Just because you can pick up a satellite signal in a certain country doesn't mean that the satellite operator is operating (from a legal perspective) in that country. A country's airspace legally extends only up to a certain altitude. In theory Brazil could try to force SpaceX to stop by taking legal action through the US court system, or administrative action through the international bodies that coordinate satellite communications frequencies and orbits, but that would be unlikely to work.
      - guax 2y ago
        Brazil is not downing satellites. It's blocking bank accounts. They can issue other penalties like revoke isp licenses, I wonder if you can also block traffic from that network (imagine you cannot access your online banking because your provider is illegal), but hey, at least you can still go on X.

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41423518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41423518