3 ms·

skill issue

creesch 2y ago
Sure. I do not live in the terminal. But, I work with Linux enough to comfortably navigate around, read various shell scripts with relative ease. With the exception of awk. Which to me signals that, at least in my case, awk has a higher barrier for entry compared to most other things in the same environment. So with alternatives around I can more easily parse myself, I happily concede that I have a skill issue with awk.
watt 2y ago
once there are more productive alternatives that require less specialized "skill", your condescending "skill issue" becomes a devex issue, and basically a productivity gap which will doom your language or tool.
DonHopkins 2y ago
You just need to have the skill to overcome whatever non-technical, legacy, lack of education, or poor judgement issues that are steamrolling you into choosing to use awk instead of a sane rational decent modern efficient maintainable language.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Perl, then?
  - mst 2y ago
    The rule of thumb back at Netcraft was to prototype in awk/sed for brevity/expressiveness and then port to perl for production use for performance reasons. Been a couple decades since I was wrangling the survey systems there though, no idea what it looks like now.
    - kragen 2y ago
      i very much appreciate the server surveys; for a time i read the report every month!
  - forinti 2y ago
    As a dare from a friend I compared my Perl solution to an AWK solution: $time perl -MData::Dumper -ne '$n{length($_)}++; END {print Dumper(%n)}' bigfile.txt $VAR1 = '1088'; $VAR2 = 349647; real 0m1.326s user 0m0.814s sys 0m0.371s $time awk 'length($0) > max { max=length($0) } END { print max }' bigfile.txt 1087 real 0m21.400s user 0m18.596s sys 0m0.455s I prefer Perl, but I have no issue with AWK and I actually use it frequently.
    - scbrg 2y ago
      Well. I don't know. Those two programs don't really do the same thing. There's an awful lot of comparisons in the second one. After making the awk program more similar to the Perl program, and using mawk instead of gawk (which is quite a bit slower) the numbers look a bit different: $ seq 100000000 > /tmp/numbers $ time perl -MData::Dumper -ne '$n{length($_)}++; END {print Dumper(%n)}' /tmp/numbers $VAR1 = '7'; $VAR2 = 900000; $VAR3 = '8'; $VAR4 = 9000000; $VAR5 = '5'; $VAR6 = 9000; $VAR7 = '4'; $VAR8 = 900; $VAR9 = '6'; $VAR10 = 90000; $VAR11 = '10'; $VAR12 = 1; $VAR13 = '2'; $VAR14 = 9; $VAR15 = '3'; $VAR16 = 90; $VAR17 = '9'; $VAR18 = 90000000; real 0m16.483s user 0m16.071s sys 0m0.352s $ time mawk '{ lengths[length($0)]++ } END { max = 0; for(l in lengths) if (int(l) > max) max = int(l); print max; }' /tmp/numbers 9 real 0m5.980s user 0m5.493s sys 0m0.457s [edit]: Actually had a bug in the initial implementation. Of course.
      - forinti 2y ago
        I used them both to find the longest line in a file. The Perl option just spits out the number of times each line length occurs. It will get messy if you have many different line lengths (which was not my case). You also have to take into account that awk does not count the line terminator. Let's try the opposite: make the Perl script more like the AWK one. $ time perl -ne 'if(length($_)>$n) {$n=length($_)}; END {print $n}' rockyou.txt 286 real 0m2,569s user 0m2,506s sys 0m0,056s $ time awk 'length($0) > max { max=length($0) } END { print max }' rockyou.txt 285 real 0m3,768s user 0m3,714s sys 0m0,048s
        2y ago
- orwin 2y ago
  To be fair, sometimes awk is just faster to call. In all other case, as my sibling says, use perl :D
keybored 2y ago
Even the eminent Mr. A., W., and K. had sKiLl isSueS when designing this language, apparently. You can only ask so much from regular programmers.
mardifoufs 2y ago
Well, using awk because you are familiar with it could be due to a skill issue with other languages too. Can't use python for parsing? Skill issue I guess, going by your logic.

skill issue

Sure. I do not live in the terminal. But, I work with Linux enough to comfortably navigate around, read various shell scripts with relative ease. With the exception of awk. Which to me signals that, at least in my case, awk has a higher barrier for entry compared to most other things in the same environment. So with alternatives around I can more easily parse myself, I happily concede that I have a skill issue with awk.

watt 2y ago

once there are more productive alternatives that require less specialized "skill", your condescending "skill issue" becomes a devex issue, and basically a productivity gap which will doom your language or tool.

DonHopkins 2y ago

You just need to have the skill to overcome whatever non-technical, legacy, lack of education, or poor judgement issues that are steamrolling you into choosing to use awk instead of a sane rational decent modern efficient maintainable language.

dotancohen 2y ago
Perl, then?
- mst 2y ago
  The rule of thumb back at Netcraft was to prototype in awk/sed for brevity/expressiveness and then port to perl for production use for performance reasons. Been a couple decades since I was wrangling the survey systems there though, no idea what it looks like now.
  - kragen 2y ago
    i very much appreciate the server surveys; for a time i read the report every month!
- forinti 2y ago
  As a dare from a friend I compared my Perl solution to an AWK solution: $time perl -MData::Dumper -ne '$n{length($_)}++; END {print Dumper(%n)}' bigfile.txt $VAR1 = '1088'; $VAR2 = 349647; real 0m1.326s user 0m0.814s sys 0m0.371s $time awk 'length($0) > max { max=length($0) } END { print max }' bigfile.txt 1087 real 0m21.400s user 0m18.596s sys 0m0.455s I prefer Perl, but I have no issue with AWK and I actually use it frequently.
  - scbrg 2y ago
    Well. I don't know. Those two programs don't really do the same thing. There's an awful lot of comparisons in the second one. After making the awk program more similar to the Perl program, and using mawk instead of gawk (which is quite a bit slower) the numbers look a bit different: $ seq 100000000 > /tmp/numbers $ time perl -MData::Dumper -ne '$n{length($_)}++; END {print Dumper(%n)}' /tmp/numbers $VAR1 = '7'; $VAR2 = 900000; $VAR3 = '8'; $VAR4 = 9000000; $VAR5 = '5'; $VAR6 = 9000; $VAR7 = '4'; $VAR8 = 900; $VAR9 = '6'; $VAR10 = 90000; $VAR11 = '10'; $VAR12 = 1; $VAR13 = '2'; $VAR14 = 9; $VAR15 = '3'; $VAR16 = 90; $VAR17 = '9'; $VAR18 = 90000000; real 0m16.483s user 0m16.071s sys 0m0.352s $ time mawk '{ lengths[length($0)]++ } END { max = 0; for(l in lengths) if (int(l) > max) max = int(l); print max; }' /tmp/numbers 9 real 0m5.980s user 0m5.493s sys 0m0.457s [edit]: Actually had a bug in the initial implementation. Of course.
    - forinti 2y ago
      I used them both to find the longest line in a file. The Perl option just spits out the number of times each line length occurs. It will get messy if you have many different line lengths (which was not my case). You also have to take into account that awk does not count the line terminator. Let's try the opposite: make the Perl script more like the AWK one. $ time perl -ne 'if(length($_)>$n) {$n=length($_)}; END {print $n}' rockyou.txt 286 real 0m2,569s user 0m2,506s sys 0m0,056s $ time awk 'length($0) > max { max=length($0) } END { print max }' rockyou.txt 285 real 0m3,768s user 0m3,714s sys 0m0,048s
      - 2y ago
orwin 2y ago
To be fair, sometimes awk is just faster to call. In all other case, as my sibling says, use perl :D

keybored 2y ago

Even the eminent Mr. A., W., and K. had sKiLl isSueS when designing this language, apparently. You can only ask so much from regular programmers.

mardifoufs 2y ago

Well, using awk because you are familiar with it could be due to a skill issue with other languages too. Can't use python for parsing? Skill issue I guess, going by your logic.