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Is data center electricity usage making electricity cheaper or more expensive for the domestic user? Or neither

paganel 2y ago
By the law of economics it makes it more expensive because now the 75-years old pensioner has to compete on the free market against the likes of Meta, Amazon or Alphabet for access to the same money-exchanged finite resources (electric power, in this case). More demand generates a bigger price. Of course that these big corporations and their fans/share-owners will come up and say that said bigger demand is more than offset by the bigger offer being made available only because of said big corporations, but that’s just bs.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  Electric power is not a finite resource though, so classical supply and demand would say the cost goes down - because Meta needs more power, people build more power stations, the power station builders (solar, wind, nuclear, etc.) sell more so they can benefit from economies of scale and they put their prices down.
  - paganel 2y ago
    > Electric power is not a finite resource though Electric power is most definitely a finite resource, otherwise we wouldn't have had this conversation and we would have all lived in a Startrek-like utopia. > so they can benefit from economies of scale and they put their prices down. That is the bs I was calling out against. I'm saying that because Meta needs more power then Meta will pay whatever will need in order to get access to that power, in effect out-competing those domestic users. Those power stations and the like would have already been built absent Meta's needs in order to server those domestic users and existing industrial users, you're saying that the incoming Meta new demand would be offset by the new offer (new power stations) generated by said new demand which is, again, the bs I was calling out against.
    - IshKebab 2y ago
      > Electric power is most definitely a finite resource, otherwise we wouldn't have had this conversation and we would have all lived in a Startrek-like utopia. You're getting caught up on two things: 1. We can build new power stations! Power may be limited in the very short term, but generation capacity is increasing all the time. 2. Eventually we'll run out of nuclear fuel and space for solar farms and wind turbines, but we are so far away from that point that it has no effect on the market currently. > the incoming Meta new demand would be offset by the new offer (new power stations) generated by said new demand Uhm yeah that's exactly how it works. Why do you think this is bs?
      - paganel 2y ago
        > We can build new power stations Those things cost money to build and to operate, that is until we get to their own externalities, which adds other (hidden) costs. Nothing is free, which is the whole point of the science of economics.
        IshKebab 2y ago
        Yes they cost money to build and operate and they aren't free. I'm not sure what your point is. Electricity still gets cheaper the more power stations you build.
- whereismyacc 2y ago
  by what law of economics?
  - paganel 2y ago
    Supply and demand [1], one of the very few laws of the dismal science that most of said science's practitioners really agree about. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Ekaros 2y ago
Probably it depends, on when and where. In areas with excess existing capacity like hydro it could periodically increase the prices. In other areas it could develop power infra and generation capacity making it cheaper.

By the law of economics it makes it more expensive because now the 75-years old pensioner has to compete on the free market against the likes of Meta, Amazon or Alphabet for access to the same money-exchanged finite resources (electric power, in this case). More demand generates a bigger price. Of course that these big corporations and their fans/share-owners will come up and say that said bigger demand is more than offset by the bigger offer being made available only because of said big corporations, but that’s just bs.

IshKebab 2y ago
Electric power is not a finite resource though, so classical supply and demand would say the cost goes down - because Meta needs more power, people build more power stations, the power station builders (solar, wind, nuclear, etc.) sell more so they can benefit from economies of scale and they put their prices down.
- paganel 2y ago
  > Electric power is not a finite resource though Electric power is most definitely a finite resource, otherwise we wouldn't have had this conversation and we would have all lived in a Startrek-like utopia. > so they can benefit from economies of scale and they put their prices down. That is the bs I was calling out against. I'm saying that because Meta needs more power then Meta will pay whatever will need in order to get access to that power, in effect out-competing those domestic users. Those power stations and the like would have already been built absent Meta's needs in order to server those domestic users and existing industrial users, you're saying that the incoming Meta new demand would be offset by the new offer (new power stations) generated by said new demand which is, again, the bs I was calling out against.
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    > Electric power is most definitely a finite resource, otherwise we wouldn't have had this conversation and we would have all lived in a Startrek-like utopia. You're getting caught up on two things: 1. We can build new power stations! Power may be limited in the very short term, but generation capacity is increasing all the time. 2. Eventually we'll run out of nuclear fuel and space for solar farms and wind turbines, but we are so far away from that point that it has no effect on the market currently. > the incoming Meta new demand would be offset by the new offer (new power stations) generated by said new demand Uhm yeah that's exactly how it works. Why do you think this is bs?
    - paganel 2y ago
      > We can build new power stations Those things cost money to build and to operate, that is until we get to their own externalities, which adds other (hidden) costs. Nothing is free, which is the whole point of the science of economics.
      - IshKebab 2y ago
        Yes they cost money to build and operate and they aren't free. I'm not sure what your point is. Electricity still gets cheaper the more power stations you build.
whereismyacc 2y ago
by what law of economics?
- paganel 2y ago
  Supply and demand [1], one of the very few laws of the dismal science that most of said science's practitioners really agree about. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Ekaros 2y ago

Probably it depends, on when and where. In areas with excess existing capacity like hydro it could periodically increase the prices. In other areas it could develop power infra and generation capacity making it cheaper.