5 ms·

Berenberg_Bank, private bankers since 1590, and Beretta, making guns since 1526, are probably the oldest large companies. There are a few wineries, hotels, and

Berenberg_Bank, private bankers since 1590, and Beretta, making guns since 1526, are probably the oldest large companies. There are a few wineries, hotels, and religious goods makers that are older, but quite small. Berenberg remains a successful merchant bank today, and Beretta guns can be purchased wherever guns are sold. [1] https://www.berenberg.de/ https://www.berenberg.de/ [2] https://www.beretta.com/ https://www.beretta.com/

xmprt 2y ago
The most interesting thing about these long lasting companies is how their governance changes over time considering how different society is from when they were originally founded. Countries have come and gone within the lifetime of these companies. There have been entire paradigm shifts in terms of how companies operate. And yet they still exist through it all.
- marc_abonce 2y ago
  It looks like most of this centuries-long companies are family owned which sort of explains why do they survive all sorts of extreme political and economic changes that would otherwise break most companies. But it would be interesting to see if there's an actual study to explain this.
  - xmprt 2y ago
    Being family owned is still impressive. The founder of the company probably has many thousands of heir today so how the company lived without being split between heirs is surprising.
- lostlogin 2y ago
  > Countries have come and gone within the lifetime of these companies. Are there any that have existed as long as this company? Some sort of have if you are a bit vague and wave your hands a bit.
  - AmericanChopper 2y ago
    Depends entirely on how you define the parameters of the question. Egypt has been around for a very long time, but is the ~3000BC Egypt the same country as the 2024 Egypt? Did Egypt stop being Egypt during the period of Roman rule? What about during Macedonian rule? Did people 5000 years ago even have a concept of a “country” that would align with what we think makes a country in 2024? Do people in 2024 even have an agreed upon concept of what a country is today? (I would say evidently not) Does the country of ancient Persia still exist? If it’s longest contiguous self-sovereignty then probably Japan would be pretty high up the list. If its longest surviving constitution, then the USA and San Marino would also be two of the oldest countries in the world. But is San Marino even a country? Certainly not by every single metric you could possibly use to define one. Is the Magna Carta still in effect? Some of it is, but is that enough to make it the oldest surviving constitution? To make the question meaningful you probably have to make it a lot more specific. Otherwise the answer is just a debate about what constitutes a country, and what constitutes it coming into and out of existence.
- hinkley 2y ago
  I wonder how many of these were considered semi benevolent either during their entire life span or lucky or wise enough to do so during times of turmoil. Some stores will have people willing to stick their neck out to defend them during riots. Some have good insurance and don’t care. Which ones get obliterated when the pitchforks and torches come out?
ftrobro 2y ago
Stora Enso has 20000 employees and roots in the 13th century. In the 17th centry Stora produced two thirds of all copper in the world. "The oldest preserved share in the Swedish copper mining company Stora Kopparberg (Falun Mine) in Falun was issued in 1288. It granted the Bishop of Västerås 1/8th (12.5%) ownership, and it is also the oldest known preserved share in any company in the world." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stora_Enso https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stora_Enso
- bjornsing 2y ago
  From Wikipedia: “Some observers consider Stora Enso to be the oldest limited liability company in the world”. Interesting, especially considering that Sweden didn’t have limited liability companies until 1st of January 1849 [1]. Any ideas how this worked? 1. https://www.foretagskallan.se/foretagskallan-nyheter/lektionsmaterial/aktiebolaget-som-organisationsform-vaxer-fram/ https://www.foretagskallan.se/foretagskallan-nyheter/lektion...
  - ftrobro 2y ago
    I assume the charter issued by the king in 1347 declared limitations of liability for the owners of the company.
  - throw0101d 2y ago
    > Interesting, especially considering that Sweden didn’t have limited liability companies until 1st of January 1849 [1]. Any ideas how this worked? Legal personhood dates back to (at least) Ancient Rome: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person Medieval guilds, city charters, universities were all forms of such. Liability would be implicitly included in such structures.
  - victorbjorklund 2y ago
    That was when Sweden got a more general law of limited liability cooperations. There existed limited liability cooperations before that but they were created on an ad hoc basis by the government.
  - 2y ago
j_leboulanger 2y ago
I’m thinking also of Canson (founded 1557), the paper manufacturer and Richard de Bas (1326). Even Monnaie de Paris dates back from 864. Actually there are many companies still alive today that are more than 400/500 years old.
divbzero 2y ago
> There are a few wineries, hotels, and religious goods makers that are older, but quite small. Wineries, hotels, and makers of ceremonial goods are indeed common among older companies listed on Wikipedia. [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies
pjc50 2y ago
Hmm, I thought the oldest bank was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banca_Monte_dei_Paschi_di_Siena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banca_Monte_dei_Paschi_di_Sien... , which has its origin in 1472 (although not in the present form). I had to go check whether they'd survived the 2008 financial crisis without being absorbed, and I think they did. A lot of the UK's oldest banks and building societies got absorbed in a consolidation wave immediately before (and partly causative of) the financial crisis.
- hinkley 2y ago
  I get the impression that the M&A ahead of the crisis was the crisis itself. The fever that marks the beginning of the illness, before the nastier symptoms present.
- Animats 2y ago
  There were many reorganizations, bankruptcies, government interventions, and other churn in the last 20 years. Something came out with the same name, but the primary owner is currently Italy's ministry of finance. Whether the company "survived" is a good question. It's like the Hudson's Bay Company, which claims continuous existence since 1670. That's really a unit of US mall operator NRDC Equity Partners, which acquired Hudson's Bay and switched to using that name. They also own Saks Fifth Avenue and various other department store chains.[1] [1] https://www.nrdcequity.com/timeline https://www.nrdcequity.com/timeline
prepend 2y ago
I once ate at a falafel restaurant in Jerusalem that was 1,000 years old. I think there’s many restaurants that last a long time, but they aren’t what I’d consider a “large” company.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  The restaurant, or the building it was in?
- FergusArgyll 2y ago
  It has been speculated that its history may go back to Pharaonic Egypt. However, the earliest written references to falafel from Egyptian sources date to the 19th century -Wikipedia I doubt there's a 1000 yr old falafel shop in Jerusalem, if you remember the name, pray tell

xmprt 2y ago

The most interesting thing about these long lasting companies is how their governance changes over time considering how different society is from when they were originally founded. Countries have come and gone within the lifetime of these companies. There have been entire paradigm shifts in terms of how companies operate. And yet they still exist through it all.

marc_abonce 2y ago
It looks like most of this centuries-long companies are family owned which sort of explains why do they survive all sorts of extreme political and economic changes that would otherwise break most companies. But it would be interesting to see if there's an actual study to explain this.
- xmprt 2y ago
  Being family owned is still impressive. The founder of the company probably has many thousands of heir today so how the company lived without being split between heirs is surprising.
lostlogin 2y ago
> Countries have come and gone within the lifetime of these companies. Are there any that have existed as long as this company? Some sort of have if you are a bit vague and wave your hands a bit.
- AmericanChopper 2y ago
  Depends entirely on how you define the parameters of the question. Egypt has been around for a very long time, but is the ~3000BC Egypt the same country as the 2024 Egypt? Did Egypt stop being Egypt during the period of Roman rule? What about during Macedonian rule? Did people 5000 years ago even have a concept of a “country” that would align with what we think makes a country in 2024? Do people in 2024 even have an agreed upon concept of what a country is today? (I would say evidently not) Does the country of ancient Persia still exist? If it’s longest contiguous self-sovereignty then probably Japan would be pretty high up the list. If its longest surviving constitution, then the USA and San Marino would also be two of the oldest countries in the world. But is San Marino even a country? Certainly not by every single metric you could possibly use to define one. Is the Magna Carta still in effect? Some of it is, but is that enough to make it the oldest surviving constitution? To make the question meaningful you probably have to make it a lot more specific. Otherwise the answer is just a debate about what constitutes a country, and what constitutes it coming into and out of existence.
hinkley 2y ago
I wonder how many of these were considered semi benevolent either during their entire life span or lucky or wise enough to do so during times of turmoil. Some stores will have people willing to stick their neck out to defend them during riots. Some have good insurance and don’t care. Which ones get obliterated when the pitchforks and torches come out?

ftrobro 2y ago

Stora Enso has 20000 employees and roots in the 13th century. In the 17th centry Stora produced two thirds of all copper in the world. "The oldest preserved share in the Swedish copper mining company Stora Kopparberg (Falun Mine) in Falun was issued in 1288. It granted the Bishop of Västerås 1/8th (12.5%) ownership, and it is also the oldest known preserved share in any company in the world." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stora_Enso https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stora_Enso

bjornsing 2y ago
From Wikipedia: “Some observers consider Stora Enso to be the oldest limited liability company in the world”. Interesting, especially considering that Sweden didn’t have limited liability companies until 1st of January 1849 [1]. Any ideas how this worked? 1. https://www.foretagskallan.se/foretagskallan-nyheter/lektionsmaterial/aktiebolaget-som-organisationsform-vaxer-fram/ https://www.foretagskallan.se/foretagskallan-nyheter/lektion...
- ftrobro 2y ago
  I assume the charter issued by the king in 1347 declared limitations of liability for the owners of the company.
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > Interesting, especially considering that Sweden didn’t have limited liability companies until 1st of January 1849 [1]. Any ideas how this worked? Legal personhood dates back to (at least) Ancient Rome: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person Medieval guilds, city charters, universities were all forms of such. Liability would be implicitly included in such structures.
- victorbjorklund 2y ago
  That was when Sweden got a more general law of limited liability cooperations. There existed limited liability cooperations before that but they were created on an ad hoc basis by the government.
- 2y ago

j_leboulanger 2y ago

I’m thinking also of Canson (founded 1557), the paper manufacturer and Richard de Bas (1326). Even Monnaie de Paris dates back from 864. Actually there are many companies still alive today that are more than 400/500 years old.

divbzero 2y ago

> There are a few wineries, hotels, and religious goods makers that are older, but quite small. Wineries, hotels, and makers of ceremonial goods are indeed common among older companies listed on Wikipedia. [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies

pjc50 2y ago

Hmm, I thought the oldest bank was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banca_Monte_dei_Paschi_di_Siena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banca_Monte_dei_Paschi_di_Sien... , which has its origin in 1472 (although not in the present form). I had to go check whether they'd survived the 2008 financial crisis without being absorbed, and I think they did. A lot of the UK's oldest banks and building societies got absorbed in a consolidation wave immediately before (and partly causative of) the financial crisis.

hinkley 2y ago
I get the impression that the M&A ahead of the crisis was the crisis itself. The fever that marks the beginning of the illness, before the nastier symptoms present.
Animats 2y ago
There were many reorganizations, bankruptcies, government interventions, and other churn in the last 20 years. Something came out with the same name, but the primary owner is currently Italy's ministry of finance. Whether the company "survived" is a good question. It's like the Hudson's Bay Company, which claims continuous existence since 1670. That's really a unit of US mall operator NRDC Equity Partners, which acquired Hudson's Bay and switched to using that name. They also own Saks Fifth Avenue and various other department store chains.[1] [1] https://www.nrdcequity.com/timeline https://www.nrdcequity.com/timeline

prepend 2y ago

I once ate at a falafel restaurant in Jerusalem that was 1,000 years old. I think there’s many restaurants that last a long time, but they aren’t what I’d consider a “large” company.

ceejayoz 2y ago
The restaurant, or the building it was in?
FergusArgyll 2y ago
It has been speculated that its history may go back to Pharaonic Egypt. However, the earliest written references to falafel from Egyptian sources date to the 19th century -Wikipedia I doubt there's a 1000 yr old falafel shop in Jerusalem, if you remember the name, pray tell