4 ms·

Treatment (medication specifically, but other invasive procedures exist) still leaves the patients worse off than whatever “symptoms” they were experiencing. Th

Treatment (medication specifically, but other invasive procedures exist) still leaves the patients worse off than whatever “symptoms” they were experiencing. The only difference is that the modern techniques are superficially more humane than the history of gruesome surgical interventions. Of course, the only opinions and interests that truly matter in these events are the people who are involved with the patient, not the patient. The patients opinions have already been adjudicated defective and are therefore ineligible for serious consideration. In fact had their opinions not been judged defective they might not be subject to permanent mutilation. These patients serve as a warning to anyone who would dare violate an arbitrary definition of social norms.

telgareith 2y ago
They're not even superficially better- a lot of them are worse. And, at least when they called it electroshock everybody knew it was Russian roulette with the prize being a vegetable.
- sudoshred 2y ago
  I agree that many are worse, for the patient. In using the word superficially I meant to imply the modern treatments are more palatable (I am searching for the right word to use in this case and struggling) for the attendants and witnesses to the treatment, not the patient.
  - AStonesThrow 2y ago
    This is true. Drugging a person is not a healing process: it's a punishment, retribution for their moral offenses which may not be punishable as crimes. If a person complains too much, or becomes a nuisance to society, or disruptive, then they are penalized and sentenced to a "virtual incarceration" by means of drugs and clinical monitoring. Psychiatric drugs were explicitly developed as a replacement for confinement and physical restraints. The asylum system was shut down deliberately once the technology was in place to turn them out on the streets. All those homeless you see today are actually imprisoned and being punished. The apparatus is simply invisible to you.
    - mistrial9 2y ago
      this is outdated in modern pharmacology across the West
- porksoda 2y ago
  My ex had some time in the hospital before i met her, she told me sincerely that electricity applied to her head was the best thing that ever happened to her.
  - cwillu 2y ago
    Meanwhile the prize I won is tinnitus and a persistant uncontrollable twitch, neither of which have subsided even years after the “treatment” that caused them. Like they said, it's roulette.
alextingle 2y ago
That's absolutely not the case for everyone. Dismissing all treatment for psychiatric disorders as "always worse for the patient" is dangerously ill-informed.
- TacticalCoder 2y ago
  > Dismissing all treatment for psychiatric disorders as "always worse for the patient" is dangerously ill-informed. Someone even fancying the idea that somebody "anti-authoritarian" is mentally ill can immediately be classified as a totalitarian cracknut.
  - eqvinox 2y ago
    Pretty sure you can be anti-authoritarian and mentally ill at the same time. It's assuming the latter from the former and nothing else that is the problem.
PostOnce 2y ago
I used to know a guy who would literally roll around on the floor and growl and not be able to communicate when off his meds, but otherwise when on them, lucid, interesting, funny, intelligent, kind, and generally a good contributor to society. I'm not sure what his problem was or what exactly the meds were, and I still think psychology is mostly bull, but I do have some respect for psychiatric pharmaceuticals and their benefits now.
eqvinox 2y ago
Funny that you would make such an absolute — dare I say authoritarian — statement on a complicated and complex matter like this. I rather advocate for a healthcare system that attempts to help the patient, where and how it is necessary, to the patient's best achievable benefit. Sometimes that might be medication, sometimes it might be telling them that there's nothing wrong with them and society just doesn't know how to deal with them. And let's not kid ourselves. A good amount of society at large is a very poor fit for a good amount of people, and should probably change too.

telgareith 2y ago

They're not even superficially better- a lot of them are worse. And, at least when they called it electroshock everybody knew it was Russian roulette with the prize being a vegetable.

sudoshred 2y ago
I agree that many are worse, for the patient. In using the word superficially I meant to imply the modern treatments are more palatable (I am searching for the right word to use in this case and struggling) for the attendants and witnesses to the treatment, not the patient.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  This is true. Drugging a person is not a healing process: it's a punishment, retribution for their moral offenses which may not be punishable as crimes. If a person complains too much, or becomes a nuisance to society, or disruptive, then they are penalized and sentenced to a "virtual incarceration" by means of drugs and clinical monitoring. Psychiatric drugs were explicitly developed as a replacement for confinement and physical restraints. The asylum system was shut down deliberately once the technology was in place to turn them out on the streets. All those homeless you see today are actually imprisoned and being punished. The apparatus is simply invisible to you.
  - mistrial9 2y ago
    this is outdated in modern pharmacology across the West
porksoda 2y ago
My ex had some time in the hospital before i met her, she told me sincerely that electricity applied to her head was the best thing that ever happened to her.
- cwillu 2y ago
  Meanwhile the prize I won is tinnitus and a persistant uncontrollable twitch, neither of which have subsided even years after the “treatment” that caused them. Like they said, it's roulette.

alextingle 2y ago

That's absolutely not the case for everyone. Dismissing all treatment for psychiatric disorders as "always worse for the patient" is dangerously ill-informed.

TacticalCoder 2y ago
> Dismissing all treatment for psychiatric disorders as "always worse for the patient" is dangerously ill-informed. Someone even fancying the idea that somebody "anti-authoritarian" is mentally ill can immediately be classified as a totalitarian cracknut.
- eqvinox 2y ago
  Pretty sure you can be anti-authoritarian and mentally ill at the same time. It's assuming the latter from the former and nothing else that is the problem.

PostOnce 2y ago

I used to know a guy who would literally roll around on the floor and growl and not be able to communicate when off his meds, but otherwise when on them, lucid, interesting, funny, intelligent, kind, and generally a good contributor to society. I'm not sure what his problem was or what exactly the meds were, and I still think psychology is mostly bull, but I do have some respect for psychiatric pharmaceuticals and their benefits now.

eqvinox 2y ago

Funny that you would make such an absolute — dare I say authoritarian — statement on a complicated and complex matter like this. I rather advocate for a healthcare system that attempts to help the patient, where and how it is necessary, to the patient's best achievable benefit. Sometimes that might be medication, sometimes it might be telling them that there's nothing wrong with them and society just doesn't know how to deal with them. And let's not kid ourselves. A good amount of society at large is a very poor fit for a good amount of people, and should probably change too.