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Yes. I recently had to debug my gf’s entire work computer setup getting fubar’d from installing a pip package at a user level that conflicted with the name of s

Yes. I recently had to debug my gf’s entire work computer setup getting fubar’d from installing a pip package at a user level that conflicted with the name of some package used internally by the 10k+/seat/year software the company devices have installed. Proximal cause? The installer “helpfully” failed over to installing at the user level when she didn’t have permissions to write to the place she told it to. Root cause of course is that million dollar fancy fancy enterprise software somehow being unable to give itself an isolated python package namespace, or provide any relevant errors when conflicts occurred. The python packaging system has to be used in case studies of worst design decisions of all time.

adolph 2y ago
> package used internally by the 10k+/seat/year software the company devices have installed Sounds like a skill issue that shouldn’t be seen in “10k+/seat/year software.” I wonder what other fails are in it.
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  Well it constantly crashes and requires every shop to develop their own half-broken way of interfacing between it and other industry-standard software, but at least ~half the pixels you’ve seen in any modern movie or tv show have been touched by it at one point or another. So that’s interesting.
  - geysersam 2y ago
    Thats extremely fascinating. What's it used for?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
      By the books Digital Compositing, but Editors also gravitate towards it for generalist work.
AtlasBarfed 2y ago
Python has dogshit package management that makes java look well thought out and sane.
- echelon 2y ago
  PYTHON @&$!! The Python community needs to solve this ASAP. This almost weekly pain point has turned a language I used to love in college into one of my most despised languages. The fact that the ML community uses this broken platform is infuriating. Make a Python version 4 that focuses only on fixing the packaging. 100% per-project hermeticy. No global packages whatsoever. Solve just this issue and bring the entire ecosystem on board. Kill all the various virtualenvs, the anacondas, global packages. All of it. Learn from Rust/Cargo. That project does it mostly right (sans lack of namespaces and reproducible builds).
  - Eisenstein 2y ago
    It took 10 years to force a breaking migration from Python 2 to Python 3 in order to handle Unicode... I have resigned myself to repeatedly smashing my keyboard on the desk until it rains keys in blind rage induced frustration to let off steam and then calmly creating an issue in the appropriate repo instead of allowing even a modicum of hope that this will ever be fixed systemically.
  - mr_toad 2y ago
    Wouldn’t this end up like the XKCD standards cartoon. You’d have yet another Python package system and even more fragmentation. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      If Python users weren't comfortable living in that reality already, they wouldn't still be Python users.
  - superlopuh 2y ago
    As far as I'm concerned, this is the fix: https://github.com/astral-sh/uv https://github.com/astral-sh/uv
LarsDu88 2y ago
Sigh https://dublog.net/blog/so-many-python-package-managers/ https://dublog.net/blog/so-many-python-package-managers/

adolph 2y ago

> package used internally by the 10k+/seat/year software the company devices have installed Sounds like a skill issue that shouldn’t be seen in “10k+/seat/year software.” I wonder what other fails are in it.

dumbo-octopus 2y ago
Well it constantly crashes and requires every shop to develop their own half-broken way of interfacing between it and other industry-standard software, but at least ~half the pixels you’ve seen in any modern movie or tv show have been touched by it at one point or another. So that’s interesting.
- geysersam 2y ago
  Thats extremely fascinating. What's it used for?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
    By the books Digital Compositing, but Editors also gravitate towards it for generalist work.

AtlasBarfed 2y ago

Python has dogshit package management that makes java look well thought out and sane.

echelon 2y ago
PYTHON @&$!! The Python community needs to solve this ASAP. This almost weekly pain point has turned a language I used to love in college into one of my most despised languages. The fact that the ML community uses this broken platform is infuriating. Make a Python version 4 that focuses only on fixing the packaging. 100% per-project hermeticy. No global packages whatsoever. Solve just this issue and bring the entire ecosystem on board. Kill all the various virtualenvs, the anacondas, global packages. All of it. Learn from Rust/Cargo. That project does it mostly right (sans lack of namespaces and reproducible builds).
- Eisenstein 2y ago
  It took 10 years to force a breaking migration from Python 2 to Python 3 in order to handle Unicode... I have resigned myself to repeatedly smashing my keyboard on the desk until it rains keys in blind rage induced frustration to let off steam and then calmly creating an issue in the appropriate repo instead of allowing even a modicum of hope that this will ever be fixed systemically.
- mr_toad 2y ago
  Wouldn’t this end up like the XKCD standards cartoon. You’d have yet another Python package system and even more fragmentation. https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    If Python users weren't comfortable living in that reality already, they wouldn't still be Python users.
- superlopuh 2y ago
  As far as I'm concerned, this is the fix: https://github.com/astral-sh/uv https://github.com/astral-sh/uv

LarsDu88 2y ago

Sigh https://dublog.net/blog/so-many-python-package-managers/ https://dublog.net/blog/so-many-python-package-managers/