3 ms·

Telegram as an Independent Intelligence Agency

34 points by api 2y ago

throwawaycar 2y ago
[dead]
Glacia 2y ago
Fun fact: Recently FSB database on border crossings from 2014 to 2023 was leaked online and Durov visited Russia 50 times since 2015. In fact, he was in Russia the day the telegram was unblocked. I wonder why?
- eitland 2y ago
  Care to link to the leaks? I've heard similar stories on and off but if you post the link you'd be the first to let me know the source. Not saying it isn't true. Only pointing out I have not seen the source yet.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    Rumors are that it costs 270000 USD, but apparently a couple of aggregators have bought it.
  - Glacia 2y ago
    Here is a Russian source (Use google translate): https://storage.googleapis.com/istories/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-priezzhal-v-rossiyu-bolee-50-raz-s-momenta-izgnaniya-v-2014-m/index.html https://storage.googleapis.com/istories/news/2024/08/27/pave... The DB was sold on darknet for huge money (200 000$+). First person to report about this leak was this guy: https://t.me/zakharovchannel/1416?single https://t.me/zakharovchannel/1416?single Multiple people so far have confirmed it's a real DB.
  - mananaysiempre 2y ago
    The database itself doesn’t seem to be publically available (yet, I guess). Original reporting (in Russian): The announcement of the leak (by Zakharov[1]) was in https://t.me/zakharovchannel/1418 https://t.me/zakharovchannel/1418. Alburov[2], former head investigative journalist at Navalny’s ACF[3], confirmed(/bragged) that the the data matched their publications in https://x.com/alburov/status/1828143239615947234 https://x.com/alburov/status/1828143239615947234. The source for most of the news articles on Durov specifically, published in iStories[4], is https://istories.media/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-priezzhal-v-rossiyu-bolee-50-raz-s-momenta-izgnaniya-v-2014-m/ https://istories.media/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-priezzhal.... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Zakharov_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Zakharov_(journalist) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Alburov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Alburov [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Corruption_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Corruption_Foundation [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IStories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IStories
next_xibalba 2y ago
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- deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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aranw 2y ago
I would happily switch to an alternative if they were good alternatives. The user experience on Telegram is amazing, the responsiveness, messages arrive instantly on all devices, the apps are feature rich and just work Nothing can compete to how good it is I'm perhaps lucky in that I don't need the security and privacy of a service like Signal
- tapoxi 2y ago
  Signal works just fine, but Signal Desktop doesn't bring over old messages, since they're not stored in the cloud. Given the number of data breaches the world experiences, I don't want every message thread I'm in available in plaintext on some company's servers. Just imagine an AI processing every conversation you've ever had.
  - 627467 2y ago
    I could imagine easy msg duplication over multiple devices to be a operational vulnerability. But honestly: most people don't need to worry about opsec. And it is very annoying that signal can't allow multidevice and data duplication, even Whatsapp solved that now
    - tapoxi 2y ago
      It would be nice if Signal supported that, and one day maybe it will, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. My linked devices have all the conversations I care about. What I do care about is that I'm the only one that can read these messages and that they're a nonprofit funded by donations.
dmix 2y ago
This seems to be a rehashing of the WSJ article on the connection between Telegram and spies, which is much better: https://www.wsj.com/world/who-is-pavel-durov-telegram-founder-9b43eb5a https://www.wsj.com/world/who-is-pavel-durov-telegram-founde... https://archive.is/FFPt2 https://archive.is/FFPt2
- f0ney 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing the link. The WSJ story is indeed more informative.
dmichulke 2y ago
Hmm, some company has servers where communication is stored, therefore it's an intelligence agency? I think the author is just widening the definition (of intelligence agency) here and/or speculating.
aftbit 2y ago
Interesting that the author highlights Telegram as associated with crypto bros and the far right. In my circles, Telegram is most known as used by whistleblowers and uncensored Ukraine war reporters. I suppose this is the obvious niche for "alternative" platforms - take anything that's banned or downranked on the mainstream platforms but for which there is still a substantial consumer demand.
- api 2y ago
  It's heavily used by a ton of people in Ukraine, which is probably quite unwise given the strong circumstantial evidence for it being compromised by Russia.

34 points by api 2y ago

[dead]

Fun fact: Recently FSB database on border crossings from 2014 to 2023 was leaked online and Durov visited Russia 50 times since 2015. In fact, he was in Russia the day the telegram was unblocked. I wonder why?

eitland 2y ago
Care to link to the leaks? I've heard similar stories on and off but if you post the link you'd be the first to let me know the source. Not saying it isn't true. Only pointing out I have not seen the source yet.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  Rumors are that it costs 270000 USD, but apparently a couple of aggregators have bought it.
- Glacia 2y ago
  Here is a Russian source (Use google translate): https://storage.googleapis.com/istories/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-priezzhal-v-rossiyu-bolee-50-raz-s-momenta-izgnaniya-v-2014-m/index.html https://storage.googleapis.com/istories/news/2024/08/27/pave... The DB was sold on darknet for huge money (200 000$+). First person to report about this leak was this guy: https://t.me/zakharovchannel/1416?single https://t.me/zakharovchannel/1416?single Multiple people so far have confirmed it's a real DB.
- mananaysiempre 2y ago
  The database itself doesn’t seem to be publically available (yet, I guess). Original reporting (in Russian): The announcement of the leak (by Zakharov[1]) was in https://t.me/zakharovchannel/1418 https://t.me/zakharovchannel/1418. Alburov[2], former head investigative journalist at Navalny’s ACF[3], confirmed(/bragged) that the the data matched their publications in https://x.com/alburov/status/1828143239615947234 https://x.com/alburov/status/1828143239615947234. The source for most of the news articles on Durov specifically, published in iStories[4], is https://istories.media/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-priezzhal-v-rossiyu-bolee-50-raz-s-momenta-izgnaniya-v-2014-m/ https://istories.media/news/2024/08/27/pavel-durov-priezzhal.... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Zakharov_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Zakharov_(journalist) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Alburov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Alburov [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Corruption_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Corruption_Foundation [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IStories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IStories

next_xibalba 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

aranw 2y ago

I would happily switch to an alternative if they were good alternatives. The user experience on Telegram is amazing, the responsiveness, messages arrive instantly on all devices, the apps are feature rich and just work Nothing can compete to how good it is I'm perhaps lucky in that I don't need the security and privacy of a service like Signal

tapoxi 2y ago
Signal works just fine, but Signal Desktop doesn't bring over old messages, since they're not stored in the cloud. Given the number of data breaches the world experiences, I don't want every message thread I'm in available in plaintext on some company's servers. Just imagine an AI processing every conversation you've ever had.
- 627467 2y ago
  I could imagine easy msg duplication over multiple devices to be a operational vulnerability. But honestly: most people don't need to worry about opsec. And it is very annoying that signal can't allow multidevice and data duplication, even Whatsapp solved that now
  - tapoxi 2y ago
    It would be nice if Signal supported that, and one day maybe it will, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. My linked devices have all the conversations I care about. What I do care about is that I'm the only one that can read these messages and that they're a nonprofit funded by donations.

dmix 2y ago

This seems to be a rehashing of the WSJ article on the connection between Telegram and spies, which is much better: https://www.wsj.com/world/who-is-pavel-durov-telegram-founder-9b43eb5a https://www.wsj.com/world/who-is-pavel-durov-telegram-founde... https://archive.is/FFPt2 https://archive.is/FFPt2

f0ney 2y ago
Thanks for sharing the link. The WSJ story is indeed more informative.

dmichulke 2y ago

Hmm, some company has servers where communication is stored, therefore it's an intelligence agency? I think the author is just widening the definition (of intelligence agency) here and/or speculating.

aftbit 2y ago

Interesting that the author highlights Telegram as associated with crypto bros and the far right. In my circles, Telegram is most known as used by whistleblowers and uncensored Ukraine war reporters. I suppose this is the obvious niche for "alternative" platforms - take anything that's banned or downranked on the mainstream platforms but for which there is still a substantial consumer demand.

api 2y ago
It's heavily used by a ton of people in Ukraine, which is probably quite unwise given the strong circumstantial evidence for it being compromised by Russia.