9 ms·

Announcing Windows Phone 8

63 points by vyrotek 14y ago

vyrotek 14y ago
Some highlights I thought were interesting: Integrated Internet calling: In Windows Phone 8, developers can create VoIP apps that plug into our existing calling feature so Internet calls can be answered like traditional phone calls, using the same calling interface. Device encryption: To help keep everything from documents to passwords safe, Windows Phone 8 includes built-in technology to encrypt the entire device, including the operating system and data files. Windows Phone 8 updates will be delivered wirelessly over-the-air, so you don’t have to bother plugging your phone into your PC to update anymore. Second, we will support devices with updates for at least 18 months from device launch.
- r00fus 14y ago
  I hope full-device encryption is a feature that will be soon supported on iOS (currently it only encrypts email, contacts and app data that uses the API). Props to Microsoft for upping their game here.
  - danudey 14y ago
    My understanding is that the entire storage device is transparently encrypted/decrypted on the iPhone 3GS and up. Unfortunately all this means is that if someone pulls your phone apart they can't pull the data, but if they jailbreak it they can. If your phone is PIN-locked, you're secure. This is why 'erase all content and settings' takes only a few seconds on newer devices, vs. hours on the iPhone and iPhone 3G - all it has to do is erase the decryption key and the entire partition is effectively garbage.
    - r00fus 14y ago
      That's not what this Apple KB cites [1]: "This provides an additional layer of protection for your email messages and attachments. Third-party applications can use the data protection APIs in iOS 4 and later to further protect application data." That does not imply all data is encrypted - in fact, it implies it requires app-level support and not even all first-party app data is encrypted. [1] http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4175 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4175
      - jpxxx 14y ago
        There are at least two different kinds of encryption at work on Apple mobile products. The one that this knowledge base is discussing, is a crypto accelerator framework that allows you to quickly do high-quality encryption on a segment of data. However there is also fundamental encryption placed on the solid-state flash assembly that drives all iOS devices. It is not user accessible, it does not rely on user visible passwords, and guarantees that when the device is off, the filesystem cannot be read. The first generation of Windows 7 devices did not offer hardware file system encryption, ironically keeping them from connecting to most Microsoft exchange installations.
        ciniglio 14y ago
        This PDF put out by apple is fairly accessible and describes these measures in some depth if you're interested. http://images.apple.com/ipad/business/docs/iOS_Security_May12.pdf http://images.apple.com/ipad/business/docs/iOS_Security_May1...
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  I think the bigger news is that it is going to share the core with Windows 8/RT which will allow developers to target phone, tablet and PC at the same time.
  - barista 14y ago
    Yes I think this is a big news. Developers were afraid to commit to windows phone as a platform citing low installed base. Now with ability to target PC and tablet's suddenly the reach of your app explodes.
cmelbye 14y ago
Maybe it's just me, but I liked the simplicity of the Windows Phone 7 start menu. I hope that's not compromised in the new start menu - it looks a little busy.
- WrkInProgress 14y ago
  Well, you will have the option to keep the original size "live tiles". I do agree that many of the examples of the new home screen, looked quite the mess.
bishnu 14y ago
18 months guaranteed updates? If you're not going to guarantee Apple-like longevity why would you even do it, period? I'm sure MS would like to get that level of support but if they don't want to bet on it why not just have everyone live in ignorance?
- r00fus 14y ago
  With similar difficulties that Android has - ie, the handset manufacturers being part of the update process - another question is, how long after an OS update is posted will it take to see it on all devices? Will some arrive in days or weeks, while others linger for months? Will Nokia be given preferential treatment?
- aphexairlines 14y ago
  Maybe has something to do with carriers subsidizing a new phone for you every 2 years, at least in the US.
- mgkimsal 14y ago
  18 months is a hell of a lot better than the 0 months you get with many android-based devices (or, effectively, negative months with 2.1 released devices).
  - kumarm 14y ago
    Why would average person want a major OS upgrade for their phone? I can understand a minor update (Bug fix etc). But do I really want my Phone OS to be updated (yes as a developer but no as a user)?
    - czr80 14y ago
      My phone? No, I don't really care if that is updated. My handheld computer? That I definitely want to be running the latest OS.
    - mgkimsal 14y ago
      When 'new' features are advertised, many people like to use them. "You can do XYZ on your Android, except not the one you bought brand new last month because it's really 23 months old already. To use XYZ, you'll need to shell out another $x00 vs just getting a software download". Google allowing device manufacturers to even have a hand in deciding who gets updates and when is... crazy. The damage that can and will do to the Android brand over time is immense. The biggest 'value' most people see in Android is "not Apple", which isn't really a long term viable competitive position to take. MS has (and has had for some time) an opp to eat away at the "anything but apple" smartphone crowd, and they'll be taking share away from Android.
Maakuth 14y ago
"... will arrive on new phones later this year." New phones? So WP7 ones are not upgradable then... I think this is yet again bad news for Nokia, as it deepens their situation of everyone knowing the devices they are selling are soon going to be obsolete.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  There is something called Windows Phone 7.8. http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-unveils-windows-phone-78-update-legacy-hardware http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-unveils-windows-phone-78-... I don't know what is with the comments on tech sites, but I just read this story on Slashdot and the summary was misleading and omitted Windows Phone 7.8 completely. There were a whole bunch of comments like yours and many were modded up. And not one comment pointing out the existence of version 7.8 was modded up. It's like the crowd wants Nokia to fail and wants to ignore the real news or something.
  - jsnell 14y ago
    So at least that post makes 7.8 appear like nothing but a minor skin upgrade. Why is that interesting in any way? Any poor buyer of current Lumia phones is still never getting an upgrade that fills in all those gaping holes in the feature set.
    - jimbobimbo 14y ago
      How bringing features like NFC or multi-core support to current Lumias help anyone, if hardware pieces are missing?
      - rbanffy 14y ago
        Having 7.8 doesn't make them look any less dead-end phones. Would you buy a new Android phone that can't be upgraded to ICS? Would you buy a new iPhone that cannot be upgraded to iOS 6?
        14y ago
briandear 14y ago
I didn't even know Phone 7 was fully released. I hope Windows Phone 8 has a Professional-Home-Often-On-The-PATH-Train Edition-for-Workgroups. I couldn't live without that.
tomhenderson 14y ago
It's great that they are trying something different from iOS and Android, but I can't help thinking that most of the icons on those home screens look very similar. They seem to be mostly either a white icon on a plain square, or a photo. A bit of colour variation on the icons might make navigation a but faster.
DeepDuh 14y ago
MS seems to be pretty much betting their company on their company on the metro interface and their win RT core. I'm curious about how well this core scales to low power devices. What's also important is the migration path from win32 to winRT. Apple has brought most of the backend frameworks from OSX to iOS, which makes porting powerful mac applications easy. Does anyone develop on winRT already?
- aschearer 14y ago
  I am working on a game in C#. I wrote the game originally for WinRT using a "Portable Class Library" for 80-90% of the code. Over the weekend I ported the game to Windows 7 and XNA re-using the portable class library without modification. Naturally the user interface needed to be rewritten but I think that's for the best.
- BobPalmer 14y ago
  I've built a few cross-platform apps that work both on WP7 and Win8 - as noted before, Portable Class Libraries is a huge help. My web services were fully reused as were all of my base libraries, just had to redo the UI - and between Silverlight and WinRT I was able to copy and paste a lot of my XAML (just a few namespace changes and a couple of minor mods). I actually did a talk at a user group where I showed a few different apps, then translated them live between the phone, the web, and the tablet.
  - DeepDuh 14y ago
    Thanks for the input. So you can do cross platform if you use these portable class libraries from start. How about about porting win32 code from the .net era? I would guess that most of today's windows applications are running on those libraries, don't they?
    - BobPalmer 14y ago
      I either use a PCL from the start, or I've taken existing code and moved it into the pCL (there are a few tricks to get around due to pieces missing from the various libraries, since they are an overlapping subset). So if you have existing .net code, I'd try to plug it into the PCL and see which namespaces, etc. are missing then work backwards from there - even if you can only get some of your code, it's a better start than copy/pasting everything IMO.
tmcw 14y ago
Why does Microsoft have comments enabled on release blogs?
reason 14y ago
I cannot stand their new aesthetic. I saw a demo of Metro on a tablet at the Microsoft store a few weeks back and was really, really turned off. Why are the app squares of variable sizes? The guy accessed a settings menu out of nowhere. I was so confused I had to ask him to show me how he did it. There were no indications, cues, hints, etc, that would've led me to believe the menu was there. This isn't only limited to the settings menu. I don't want to turn this into an iPod/iPad vs. WP8/Surface debate, but the first thing that popped into my head after I walked out of the store was "Jesus, my mom would have a hell of a time learning how to use that." She's a pro with her iPad, and it'd take her a very long time to reach that same level of savviness with a tablet running Metro. Metro isn't designed for the average person. There's nothing that directs you, there are no consistent UI elements that carry on throughout the design. Every app the guy opened was designed differently. With iOS, I at least have the top (and often bottom) nav bar to guide me. I, a guy who's been playing with computers for years, was utterly confused and put off from Metro. I think they've got a long way to go if they plan on seeing the same adoption of their WP8 phone that the iPhone has seen. I'm not sure if that's what they want, but I assume they do.
- meta 14y ago
  That is interesting because I really like the aesthetic. Some of the apps I have used are indeed not consistent but I found the same on iPhone and android as well. Another thing I think to keep in mind as well is designing and implementing for a 'metro' UI is new for many developers and it will take time to get used to (and create) the conventions. I can't recall: when the iPhone came out was there a period of 'flailing' as devs figured out conventions that worked?
  - joe_the_user 14y ago
    I can see "liking their aesthetic" But I think that's because "like" and "aesthetic" wasn't quite the words the gp was aiming for. It's more like their User Interface Paradigm just doesn't work. A cool sports car with no door handles or keyhole, that the cool kids open with right twist of the wrist or something can have a really nice aesthetic but be really annoying in the real world. Multiply that by a thousand and you've got something where the right mindset will get you love while the rest of us will hate and hate. Especially, menus in invisible places. That's a terrible designers are often tempted towards but should know better. If I ever have to use that stuff, some karma bolts be stinging the aestheticians who dreamed them up. I have news. The average person is less, less - not more - less patient with "getting used to the conventions" than developers. The average person may wind-up using "conventions" but probably couldn't "describe conventions" more easily than they could solve differential equations. If how you use the thing isn't screamingly obvious, how do you expect Joe Average to shell out the big bucks for something they still expect to be "mostly just a phone".
olenhad 14y ago
"Internet Explorer 10: The next version of Windows Phone comes with the same web browsing engine that’s headed for Window 8 PCs and tablets..." Not to sound trollish, but is that really a feature?
- KeyBoardG 14y ago
  It didnt used to be the case and it can be reassuring to users that they are getting a decent quality browser and not a hack. Especially for users coming off the Blackberry and Symbian platforms. So, I think its fair to say.
- Mythbusters 14y ago
  And why do you think its not?
yaix 14y ago
I really like the "tiles" concept for touch screens. After years of not using any MS product, I may actually use Windows again. Only that MS should have called it "Tiles" and continued Windows as a different product line for desktop PCs. PCs will no go away any time soon, because touch screens are not (yet) good for office work.
at-fates-hands 14y ago
I have to say I just switched over a Windows 7 phone (more out of curiosity than anything else) and although there are a lot of features I like, there are an equal number I dislike. The attempt by MS to completely shut out Google is annoying. In many respects, I really feel at times I'm being forced into using MS products. All in all, I give the Win7 phone a 4 on a scale of 1-10. With the continuation of the Metro interface, the forcing of MS products and lack of alternatives (like Opera or FF browser instead of IE) in the Market place, I doubt the Win8 phone is going to be a substantially better product.
- rlu 14y ago
  How are they shutting out Google? I think Google is more to blame than Microsoft as far as this goes. Google just simply does not play nice with WP7
  - at-fates-hands 14y ago
    Well, you can only sync one gmail account (without buying an app which allows more) so having multiple gmail accounts means I had to forward one of my emails to a hotmail account and haven't been able to sync my other google calendar with my handset. The other program I use a lot is google music. I tried the CloudMuszik to get around this and it was horrible so I actually tried the desktop Zune interface. Again, another horrible experience. It brought my desktop PC to a crawl and would lock up and crash constantly. Without fully committing to paying for a bunch of apps to get my stuff working, it just seems like a pain if you're hooked into using a lot of google's apps. Granted, if I was going to stay, I would invest in the apps, but I'm not quite there yet. Just for the record, I'm using the HTC Trophy on Verizon - which is on their 3G network. Also, if there's something I'm missing, let me know. I'm all for having a more trouble free experience with the phone.
- Ergomane 14y ago
  Can you elaborate on completely shutting aout Google? I'm using a WP7 with Google accounts for mail, contacts and calendar.
chj 14y ago
I can live with the tiles if only let me customize the shapes. No plain rectangles plz. Dropping native code development is a shit decision they made years ago, and I am glad to see they finally shit it back.
- panacea 14y ago
  You would be sold on Metro if you could specify rounded corners?
  - chj 14y ago
    yeah, plus NDK.
aparadja 14y ago
On Safari, the whole top left corner is blocked by a sticky "floating" youtube video. The video can't be played or closed. All clicks fall through to the page elements under the video. http://i.imgur.com/54HB1.png http://i.imgur.com/54HB1.png

63 points by vyrotek 14y ago

Some highlights I thought were interesting: Integrated Internet calling: In Windows Phone 8, developers can create VoIP apps that plug into our existing calling feature so Internet calls can be answered like traditional phone calls, using the same calling interface. Device encryption: To help keep everything from documents to passwords safe, Windows Phone 8 includes built-in technology to encrypt the entire device, including the operating system and data files. Windows Phone 8 updates will be delivered wirelessly over-the-air, so you don’t have to bother plugging your phone into your PC to update anymore. Second, we will support devices with updates for at least 18 months from device launch.

r00fus 14y ago
I hope full-device encryption is a feature that will be soon supported on iOS (currently it only encrypts email, contacts and app data that uses the API). Props to Microsoft for upping their game here.
- danudey 14y ago
  My understanding is that the entire storage device is transparently encrypted/decrypted on the iPhone 3GS and up. Unfortunately all this means is that if someone pulls your phone apart they can't pull the data, but if they jailbreak it they can. If your phone is PIN-locked, you're secure. This is why 'erase all content and settings' takes only a few seconds on newer devices, vs. hours on the iPhone and iPhone 3G - all it has to do is erase the decryption key and the entire partition is effectively garbage.
  - r00fus 14y ago
    That's not what this Apple KB cites [1]: "This provides an additional layer of protection for your email messages and attachments. Third-party applications can use the data protection APIs in iOS 4 and later to further protect application data." That does not imply all data is encrypted - in fact, it implies it requires app-level support and not even all first-party app data is encrypted. [1] http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4175 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4175
    - jpxxx 14y ago
      There are at least two different kinds of encryption at work on Apple mobile products. The one that this knowledge base is discussing, is a crypto accelerator framework that allows you to quickly do high-quality encryption on a segment of data. However there is also fundamental encryption placed on the solid-state flash assembly that drives all iOS devices. It is not user accessible, it does not rely on user visible passwords, and guarantees that when the device is off, the filesystem cannot be read. The first generation of Windows 7 devices did not offer hardware file system encryption, ironically keeping them from connecting to most Microsoft exchange installations.
      - ciniglio 14y ago
        This PDF put out by apple is fairly accessible and describes these measures in some depth if you're interested. http://images.apple.com/ipad/business/docs/iOS_Security_May12.pdf http://images.apple.com/ipad/business/docs/iOS_Security_May1...
recoiledsnake 14y ago
I think the bigger news is that it is going to share the core with Windows 8/RT which will allow developers to target phone, tablet and PC at the same time.
- barista 14y ago
  Yes I think this is a big news. Developers were afraid to commit to windows phone as a platform citing low installed base. Now with ability to target PC and tablet's suddenly the reach of your app explodes.

cmelbye 14y ago

Maybe it's just me, but I liked the simplicity of the Windows Phone 7 start menu. I hope that's not compromised in the new start menu - it looks a little busy.

WrkInProgress 14y ago
Well, you will have the option to keep the original size "live tiles". I do agree that many of the examples of the new home screen, looked quite the mess.

bishnu 14y ago

18 months guaranteed updates? If you're not going to guarantee Apple-like longevity why would you even do it, period? I'm sure MS would like to get that level of support but if they don't want to bet on it why not just have everyone live in ignorance?

r00fus 14y ago
With similar difficulties that Android has - ie, the handset manufacturers being part of the update process - another question is, how long after an OS update is posted will it take to see it on all devices? Will some arrive in days or weeks, while others linger for months? Will Nokia be given preferential treatment?
aphexairlines 14y ago
Maybe has something to do with carriers subsidizing a new phone for you every 2 years, at least in the US.
mgkimsal 14y ago
18 months is a hell of a lot better than the 0 months you get with many android-based devices (or, effectively, negative months with 2.1 released devices).
- kumarm 14y ago
  Why would average person want a major OS upgrade for their phone? I can understand a minor update (Bug fix etc). But do I really want my Phone OS to be updated (yes as a developer but no as a user)?
  - czr80 14y ago
    My phone? No, I don't really care if that is updated. My handheld computer? That I definitely want to be running the latest OS.
  - mgkimsal 14y ago
    When 'new' features are advertised, many people like to use them. "You can do XYZ on your Android, except not the one you bought brand new last month because it's really 23 months old already. To use XYZ, you'll need to shell out another $x00 vs just getting a software download". Google allowing device manufacturers to even have a hand in deciding who gets updates and when is... crazy. The damage that can and will do to the Android brand over time is immense. The biggest 'value' most people see in Android is "not Apple", which isn't really a long term viable competitive position to take. MS has (and has had for some time) an opp to eat away at the "anything but apple" smartphone crowd, and they'll be taking share away from Android.

Maakuth 14y ago

"... will arrive on new phones later this year." New phones? So WP7 ones are not upgradable then... I think this is yet again bad news for Nokia, as it deepens their situation of everyone knowing the devices they are selling are soon going to be obsolete.

cooldeal 14y ago
There is something called Windows Phone 7.8. http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-unveils-windows-phone-78-update-legacy-hardware http://www.wpcentral.com/microsoft-unveils-windows-phone-78-... I don't know what is with the comments on tech sites, but I just read this story on Slashdot and the summary was misleading and omitted Windows Phone 7.8 completely. There were a whole bunch of comments like yours and many were modded up. And not one comment pointing out the existence of version 7.8 was modded up. It's like the crowd wants Nokia to fail and wants to ignore the real news or something.
- jsnell 14y ago
  So at least that post makes 7.8 appear like nothing but a minor skin upgrade. Why is that interesting in any way? Any poor buyer of current Lumia phones is still never getting an upgrade that fills in all those gaping holes in the feature set.
  - jimbobimbo 14y ago
    How bringing features like NFC or multi-core support to current Lumias help anyone, if hardware pieces are missing?
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      Having 7.8 doesn't make them look any less dead-end phones. Would you buy a new Android phone that can't be upgraded to ICS? Would you buy a new iPhone that cannot be upgraded to iOS 6?
      - 14y ago

briandear 14y ago

I didn't even know Phone 7 was fully released. I hope Windows Phone 8 has a Professional-Home-Often-On-The-PATH-Train Edition-for-Workgroups. I couldn't live without that.

tomhenderson 14y ago

It's great that they are trying something different from iOS and Android, but I can't help thinking that most of the icons on those home screens look very similar. They seem to be mostly either a white icon on a plain square, or a photo. A bit of colour variation on the icons might make navigation a but faster.

DeepDuh 14y ago

MS seems to be pretty much betting their company on their company on the metro interface and their win RT core. I'm curious about how well this core scales to low power devices. What's also important is the migration path from win32 to winRT. Apple has brought most of the backend frameworks from OSX to iOS, which makes porting powerful mac applications easy. Does anyone develop on winRT already?

aschearer 14y ago
I am working on a game in C#. I wrote the game originally for WinRT using a "Portable Class Library" for 80-90% of the code. Over the weekend I ported the game to Windows 7 and XNA re-using the portable class library without modification. Naturally the user interface needed to be rewritten but I think that's for the best.
BobPalmer 14y ago
I've built a few cross-platform apps that work both on WP7 and Win8 - as noted before, Portable Class Libraries is a huge help. My web services were fully reused as were all of my base libraries, just had to redo the UI - and between Silverlight and WinRT I was able to copy and paste a lot of my XAML (just a few namespace changes and a couple of minor mods). I actually did a talk at a user group where I showed a few different apps, then translated them live between the phone, the web, and the tablet.
- DeepDuh 14y ago
  Thanks for the input. So you can do cross platform if you use these portable class libraries from start. How about about porting win32 code from the .net era? I would guess that most of today's windows applications are running on those libraries, don't they?
  - BobPalmer 14y ago
    I either use a PCL from the start, or I've taken existing code and moved it into the pCL (there are a few tricks to get around due to pieces missing from the various libraries, since they are an overlapping subset). So if you have existing .net code, I'd try to plug it into the PCL and see which namespaces, etc. are missing then work backwards from there - even if you can only get some of your code, it's a better start than copy/pasting everything IMO.

tmcw 14y ago

Why does Microsoft have comments enabled on release blogs?

reason 14y ago

I cannot stand their new aesthetic. I saw a demo of Metro on a tablet at the Microsoft store a few weeks back and was really, really turned off. Why are the app squares of variable sizes? The guy accessed a settings menu out of nowhere. I was so confused I had to ask him to show me how he did it. There were no indications, cues, hints, etc, that would've led me to believe the menu was there. This isn't only limited to the settings menu. I don't want to turn this into an iPod/iPad vs. WP8/Surface debate, but the first thing that popped into my head after I walked out of the store was "Jesus, my mom would have a hell of a time learning how to use that." She's a pro with her iPad, and it'd take her a very long time to reach that same level of savviness with a tablet running Metro. Metro isn't designed for the average person. There's nothing that directs you, there are no consistent UI elements that carry on throughout the design. Every app the guy opened was designed differently. With iOS, I at least have the top (and often bottom) nav bar to guide me. I, a guy who's been playing with computers for years, was utterly confused and put off from Metro. I think they've got a long way to go if they plan on seeing the same adoption of their WP8 phone that the iPhone has seen. I'm not sure if that's what they want, but I assume they do.

meta 14y ago
That is interesting because I really like the aesthetic. Some of the apps I have used are indeed not consistent but I found the same on iPhone and android as well. Another thing I think to keep in mind as well is designing and implementing for a 'metro' UI is new for many developers and it will take time to get used to (and create) the conventions. I can't recall: when the iPhone came out was there a period of 'flailing' as devs figured out conventions that worked?
- joe_the_user 14y ago
  I can see "liking their aesthetic" But I think that's because "like" and "aesthetic" wasn't quite the words the gp was aiming for. It's more like their User Interface Paradigm just doesn't work. A cool sports car with no door handles or keyhole, that the cool kids open with right twist of the wrist or something can have a really nice aesthetic but be really annoying in the real world. Multiply that by a thousand and you've got something where the right mindset will get you love while the rest of us will hate and hate. Especially, menus in invisible places. That's a terrible designers are often tempted towards but should know better. If I ever have to use that stuff, some karma bolts be stinging the aestheticians who dreamed them up. I have news. The average person is less, less - not more - less patient with "getting used to the conventions" than developers. The average person may wind-up using "conventions" but probably couldn't "describe conventions" more easily than they could solve differential equations. If how you use the thing isn't screamingly obvious, how do you expect Joe Average to shell out the big bucks for something they still expect to be "mostly just a phone".

olenhad 14y ago

"Internet Explorer 10: The next version of Windows Phone comes with the same web browsing engine that’s headed for Window 8 PCs and tablets..." Not to sound trollish, but is that really a feature?

KeyBoardG 14y ago
It didnt used to be the case and it can be reassuring to users that they are getting a decent quality browser and not a hack. Especially for users coming off the Blackberry and Symbian platforms. So, I think its fair to say.
Mythbusters 14y ago
And why do you think its not?

yaix 14y ago

I really like the "tiles" concept for touch screens. After years of not using any MS product, I may actually use Windows again. Only that MS should have called it "Tiles" and continued Windows as a different product line for desktop PCs. PCs will no go away any time soon, because touch screens are not (yet) good for office work.

at-fates-hands 14y ago

I have to say I just switched over a Windows 7 phone (more out of curiosity than anything else) and although there are a lot of features I like, there are an equal number I dislike. The attempt by MS to completely shut out Google is annoying. In many respects, I really feel at times I'm being forced into using MS products. All in all, I give the Win7 phone a 4 on a scale of 1-10. With the continuation of the Metro interface, the forcing of MS products and lack of alternatives (like Opera or FF browser instead of IE) in the Market place, I doubt the Win8 phone is going to be a substantially better product.

rlu 14y ago
How are they shutting out Google? I think Google is more to blame than Microsoft as far as this goes. Google just simply does not play nice with WP7
- at-fates-hands 14y ago
  Well, you can only sync one gmail account (without buying an app which allows more) so having multiple gmail accounts means I had to forward one of my emails to a hotmail account and haven't been able to sync my other google calendar with my handset. The other program I use a lot is google music. I tried the CloudMuszik to get around this and it was horrible so I actually tried the desktop Zune interface. Again, another horrible experience. It brought my desktop PC to a crawl and would lock up and crash constantly. Without fully committing to paying for a bunch of apps to get my stuff working, it just seems like a pain if you're hooked into using a lot of google's apps. Granted, if I was going to stay, I would invest in the apps, but I'm not quite there yet. Just for the record, I'm using the HTC Trophy on Verizon - which is on their 3G network. Also, if there's something I'm missing, let me know. I'm all for having a more trouble free experience with the phone.
Ergomane 14y ago
Can you elaborate on completely shutting aout Google? I'm using a WP7 with Google accounts for mail, contacts and calendar.

chj 14y ago

I can live with the tiles if only let me customize the shapes. No plain rectangles plz. Dropping native code development is a shit decision they made years ago, and I am glad to see they finally shit it back.

panacea 14y ago
You would be sold on Metro if you could specify rounded corners?
- chj 14y ago
  yeah, plus NDK.

aparadja 14y ago

On Safari, the whole top left corner is blocked by a sticky "floating" youtube video. The video can't be played or closed. All clicks fall through to the page elements under the video. http://i.imgur.com/54HB1.png http://i.imgur.com/54HB1.png