5 ms·

Euston is a special case. The lack of training/concern (depending on your level of cynicism) of ticket validity of the barrier staff isn’t unique (Paddington ha

by chgs 2y ago

Euston is a special case. The lack of training/concern (depending on your level of cynicism) of ticket validity of the barrier staff isn’t unique (Paddington had this problem too), but the unique problem is the way the operator (network rail) do not announce platforms until the last minute leading to stampedes to the barriers. The announcements are just there to sell more noise cancelling headphones in the on-station shops.

pm215 2y ago
I think at Kings Cross also they have a tendency to not announce platforms until quite soon before departure.
- michaelt 2y ago
  Unlike Euston, Kings Cross was extensively renovated for the 2012 olympics, which by the standards of UK rail stations is a very recent upgrade. They seem to have built it with enough capacity that they can announce platforms at the last minute and send everyone scurrying without causing any great danger.
  - tialaramex 2y ago
    Kings Cross is a mess of different systems, especially as the whole Kings Cross/ St Pancras complex rather than solely Kings Cross (which is only a dozen platforms). The low numbered Kings Cross platforms (zero through seven) are all accessed via a sideways entrance gate line, which is not good at all and you'd clearly never do that unless there's no economic alternative.
    - michaelt 2y ago
      Oh absolutely. The underground bit is a total maze. Crossings on all the nearby roads are a nightmare. Nowhere near enough seating. But that gate line you mention has loads of ticket barriers - there's zero crush risk.
      - tialaramex 2y ago
        Yeah, no. So, at Christmas I was actually going to visit my mother. Kings Cross had advanced weather notice so they'd gone to a contigency plan, wall off that "loads of ticket barriers" (actually nowhere close to enough) with movable fencing and put staff behind the fences to allow in only those who were immediately travelling. As I arrived, they announced that due to a tree falling on the line all service from those platforms was cancelled, no trains predicted for over an hour. My train, due to leave in about half an hour, was now delayed "indefinitely" supposedly. But I've seen this movie before, I didn't go far. Sure enough, as I was loitering near a food stand 10-15 minutes later they announced that "no trains" had a single exception, my train was in fact running exactly as scheduled. So I went to that "loads of barriers" and of course there's an enormous crowd just stood there, motionless, because they aren't able to process anything except that they are at a train station and they aren't being allowed to board a train, so they're just stood there next to these handful of barriers. I try to fight my way through the crowd, but it's too far and after about five minutes the staff announce that oh, actually there's another of these non-existent trains going somewhere else now, we're boarding that train and the one has now left. About an hour later, with the station continuing to announce both that there are no trains and service hasn't resumed, and yet periodically that in fact each of the scheduled trains has (miraculously?) arrived anyway on time and is scheduled to depart on schedule contrary to the message they've also read out, this time I am standing near the front of that huge crowd and can force my way through to board the next train to my destination. I'm sure they've promised themselves there's "zero crush risk" because they've screened off the barriers. "Yup, nobody was crushed against the barriers. Good work senior management team"
- FridayoLeary 2y ago
  10-15 minutes in my experience.
masfuerte 2y ago
They delay platform announcements because they believe that a platform crammed full of waiting passengers will become a crush risk when the arriving passengers start to disembark. When they announce the platform there is often enough time to stroll, but people rush because they want a seat. It's a hard problem to solve in the short term.
- lol768 2y ago
  Anyone in the know knows where to look to find out the platform before it's "sanctioned for the public to be informed about it". And no, there isn't always time to stroll to the train, I've seen some really, really late announcements. Couple this with very large countdown timers that they actually added recently to each platform and you can see exactly why people feel stressed and rush. > They delay platform announcements because they believe that a platform crammed full of waiting passengers will become a crush risk when the arriving passengers start to disembark. The alternative is forcing them all to wait in the same cramped concourse area (with most space lost to retail units). During disruption, it gets genuinely difficult to move through this area. It has felt unpleasant in normal use for a while, but when there are cancellations and delays it feels positively dangerous. I am not exaggerating when I say that it feels very much like it's only a matter of time before something happens and someone gets crushed or trampled. There's none of this nonsense at some other London termini, and Birmingham New Street manages to let people wait on the platforms. Why can't Euston?
  - seabass-labrax 2y ago
    > Anyone in the know knows where to look to find out the platform... And for anyone who isn't in the know, that's Realtime Trains[1]. It isn't correct 100% of the time; it uses the public record of train movements (TRUST) to predict which platform a train will arrive at, but is prevented by National Rail Enquiries from using the live status and delay data which official departure boards show (Darwin). That means that if the platform is changed at the last minute it is not certain that Realtime Trains will be able to detect the change. [1]: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/
SllX 2y ago
> The announcements are just there to sell more noise cancelling headphones in the on-station shops. This is a good—albeit shameless—business model. They could probably do the same thing in San Francisco’s MUNI stations.
- Lammy 2y ago
  The T line just opened and I’m already sick of hearing the “transfer here” message eight goddamn times when my train passes Powell Station. It plays in four languages each time, once when Powell is the next station and again at Powell itself. Sounds like they made them part of the “station name” audio itself based on the way they are cued.
  - SllX 2y ago
    The transfer information is at least in line with why there’s a voice over system in the first place: giving useful actionable information to the blind in line with ADA requirements. But it does not need to be in four languages, nor should there ever be a single message played back that isn’t exactly the stop information and maybe some transfer information. Every single other message from “please stand clear of the doors” to “sexual harassment sucks, don’t do it” doesn’t need to be in there.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    What languages? English, Spanish, Mandarin, and Cantonese?
    - SllX 2y ago
      I don’t know which one comes out the speaker because San Francisco officially counts Cantonese and Mandarin together as just “Chinese” for some reason, but the fourth is Filipino (not Tagalog, Filipino is what they list which I think is just a more standardized Tagalog but I am not an expert). Here’s the data on the ordinance: https://www.sf.gov/data/san-francisco-language-diversity-data https://www.sf.gov/data/san-francisco-language-diversity-dat...

by chgs 2y ago

pm215 2y ago

I think at Kings Cross also they have a tendency to not announce platforms until quite soon before departure.

michaelt 2y ago
Unlike Euston, Kings Cross was extensively renovated for the 2012 olympics, which by the standards of UK rail stations is a very recent upgrade. They seem to have built it with enough capacity that they can announce platforms at the last minute and send everyone scurrying without causing any great danger.
- tialaramex 2y ago
  Kings Cross is a mess of different systems, especially as the whole Kings Cross/ St Pancras complex rather than solely Kings Cross (which is only a dozen platforms). The low numbered Kings Cross platforms (zero through seven) are all accessed via a sideways entrance gate line, which is not good at all and you'd clearly never do that unless there's no economic alternative.
  - michaelt 2y ago
    Oh absolutely. The underground bit is a total maze. Crossings on all the nearby roads are a nightmare. Nowhere near enough seating. But that gate line you mention has loads of ticket barriers - there's zero crush risk.
    - tialaramex 2y ago
      Yeah, no. So, at Christmas I was actually going to visit my mother. Kings Cross had advanced weather notice so they'd gone to a contigency plan, wall off that "loads of ticket barriers" (actually nowhere close to enough) with movable fencing and put staff behind the fences to allow in only those who were immediately travelling. As I arrived, they announced that due to a tree falling on the line all service from those platforms was cancelled, no trains predicted for over an hour. My train, due to leave in about half an hour, was now delayed "indefinitely" supposedly. But I've seen this movie before, I didn't go far. Sure enough, as I was loitering near a food stand 10-15 minutes later they announced that "no trains" had a single exception, my train was in fact running exactly as scheduled. So I went to that "loads of barriers" and of course there's an enormous crowd just stood there, motionless, because they aren't able to process anything except that they are at a train station and they aren't being allowed to board a train, so they're just stood there next to these handful of barriers. I try to fight my way through the crowd, but it's too far and after about five minutes the staff announce that oh, actually there's another of these non-existent trains going somewhere else now, we're boarding that train and the one has now left. About an hour later, with the station continuing to announce both that there are no trains and service hasn't resumed, and yet periodically that in fact each of the scheduled trains has (miraculously?) arrived anyway on time and is scheduled to depart on schedule contrary to the message they've also read out, this time I am standing near the front of that huge crowd and can force my way through to board the next train to my destination. I'm sure they've promised themselves there's "zero crush risk" because they've screened off the barriers. "Yup, nobody was crushed against the barriers. Good work senior management team"
FridayoLeary 2y ago
10-15 minutes in my experience.

masfuerte 2y ago

They delay platform announcements because they believe that a platform crammed full of waiting passengers will become a crush risk when the arriving passengers start to disembark. When they announce the platform there is often enough time to stroll, but people rush because they want a seat. It's a hard problem to solve in the short term.

lol768 2y ago
Anyone in the know knows where to look to find out the platform before it's "sanctioned for the public to be informed about it". And no, there isn't always time to stroll to the train, I've seen some really, really late announcements. Couple this with very large countdown timers that they actually added recently to each platform and you can see exactly why people feel stressed and rush. > They delay platform announcements because they believe that a platform crammed full of waiting passengers will become a crush risk when the arriving passengers start to disembark. The alternative is forcing them all to wait in the same cramped concourse area (with most space lost to retail units). During disruption, it gets genuinely difficult to move through this area. It has felt unpleasant in normal use for a while, but when there are cancellations and delays it feels positively dangerous. I am not exaggerating when I say that it feels very much like it's only a matter of time before something happens and someone gets crushed or trampled. There's none of this nonsense at some other London termini, and Birmingham New Street manages to let people wait on the platforms. Why can't Euston?
- seabass-labrax 2y ago
  > Anyone in the know knows where to look to find out the platform... And for anyone who isn't in the know, that's Realtime Trains[1]. It isn't correct 100% of the time; it uses the public record of train movements (TRUST) to predict which platform a train will arrive at, but is prevented by National Rail Enquiries from using the live status and delay data which official departure boards show (Darwin). That means that if the platform is changed at the last minute it is not certain that Realtime Trains will be able to detect the change. [1]: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/

SllX 2y ago

> The announcements are just there to sell more noise cancelling headphones in the on-station shops. This is a good—albeit shameless—business model. They could probably do the same thing in San Francisco’s MUNI stations.

Lammy 2y ago
The T line just opened and I’m already sick of hearing the “transfer here” message eight goddamn times when my train passes Powell Station. It plays in four languages each time, once when Powell is the next station and again at Powell itself. Sounds like they made them part of the “station name” audio itself based on the way they are cued.
- SllX 2y ago
  The transfer information is at least in line with why there’s a voice over system in the first place: giving useful actionable information to the blind in line with ADA requirements. But it does not need to be in four languages, nor should there ever be a single message played back that isn’t exactly the stop information and maybe some transfer information. Every single other message from “please stand clear of the doors” to “sexual harassment sucks, don’t do it” doesn’t need to be in there.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  What languages? English, Spanish, Mandarin, and Cantonese?
  - SllX 2y ago
    I don’t know which one comes out the speaker because San Francisco officially counts Cantonese and Mandarin together as just “Chinese” for some reason, but the fourth is Filipino (not Tagalog, Filipino is what they list which I think is just a more standardized Tagalog but I am not an expert). Here’s the data on the ordinance: https://www.sf.gov/data/san-francisco-language-diversity-data https://www.sf.gov/data/san-francisco-language-diversity-dat...