4 ms·

This is a terrible idea. They even note it by saying "we’re leaning into labeling services and hoping to integrate a Community Notes-like feature in the future"

This is a terrible idea. They even note it by saying "we’re leaning into labeling services and hoping to integrate a Community Notes-like feature in the future". Why push an update that is undoubtedly a net negative when the company itself suggests that it's not the best solution?

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
Show me a perfect solution. I'll wait.
- bangaladore 2y ago
  Having no solutions may be better than implementing flawed solutions.
CuriousCosmic 2y ago
What makes you think this is a terrible feature. This is a federated service and the company is actively attempting to get the service to a state where it can exist independently of them, preferably without the service fracturing into a bunch of islands, mostly separate from each other (cough mastodon cough). What solution would you propose that's better than this one and how is this solution a net negative (personally I think labelling services are a great approach to the problem)?
- bangaladore 2y ago
  Community notes have been very effective in retaining public trust while combating misinformation on Twitter/X. This is the polar opposite of that. Delete all opinions you disagree with, no matter the reasons. Echo chambers are not productive. Full stop. It will lead to worse outcomes. I would have a different opinion if they weren't advertising this as a general-purpose way to shut people up. This could work if it were just a method to remove "rule-breaking" posts where some authority would still evaluate the reason for removal.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - verdverm 2y ago
    Community Notes, and their abuse, is one of the reasons I left Xitter. I was a CN editor and saw that it just became another battleground for ideology Bluesky, with ATProto, is putting more control into the author and user hands. You may not like this design change, but many people do. The nice thing about ATProto is that you can write a different UI that doesn't hide or allow for this, and still belong to the social network fabric at large. You don't have to rebuild a new, separate social network from scratch
  - CuriousCosmic 2y ago
    They already stated they are planning on adding community notes along with further extending their labelling services. Community Notes doesn't address dog piling though. And unlike twitter, Bluesky & ATProto have no concept of private accounts so when you get dog piled you can't just go priv like you can on twitter until things cool off. This is specifically addressing that problem. i.e. Addressing toxicity. It's not about trying to correct misinformation. The post mentions misinformation in this section only in the context that QRTs are a common way of addressing misinformation and that allowing you to detach could reduce QRTs ability to do that. So while Community Notes should be a preferred method of addressing misinfo, it doesn't do anything to allow users to disengage or avoid toxicity (which is the point of this blog post).
Zenzero 2y ago
Not going to lie, I think Bluesky's effort is good for reducing inflammatory and combative behavior on the internet. So this response: > This is a terrible idea Got a good chuckle from me.
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  Glad it made you laugh, but in my experience as a moderator, these types of efforts result in the complete opposite and only empower trolls. Like this is 10000% going to happen: someone makes an inflammatory tweet. Bunch of replies, back and forth. The original poster will get someone to say something absolutely horrible when taken out of context of the argument, hide all other replies except the horrible one and act like a victim (while continuing to post inflammatory rage bait). Trolls spreading misinformation will use this to hide any criticism. Serial scammers will do the exact same thing. Not one single thing about this will reduce inflammatory and combative behavior on the internet, let alone bluesky.
  - orwin 2y ago
    No, the comments aren't deleted, just hidden for you and your own followers. And it will hid you from the hidden comment owner's community too. Think about it though: how do harassment campaigns start on twitter : do you have someone actively pushing his followers like this: 'you should reply to all his comments and spam his DMs!', or is more like someone responding strongly to your tweets, then his followers starting, w/o coordination to spam you? Now, did I manage to change your opinion a bit?
    - JohnMakin 2y ago
      > No, the comments aren't deleted, just hidden for you and your own followers. I understood this and nowhere in my post did I say I thought they were deleted. "hiding" is barely better and the effect is essentially the same since people aren't often going to go trolling through hidden replies. Nothing about these changes prevent or mitigate the situations you are describing.
lilyball 2y ago
Because quoting is also used as a harassment vector.
- mlindner 2y ago
  If your goal is to create a space where people can only say nice things and only agree with you, then yeah this a great method to do it. It's a great way to create a tiny bubble of like-minded people and allow you to spiral ever deeper into the bubble as outside debate and challenging of assumptions becomes disallowed.
  - lilyball 2y ago
    "Harassment" and "disagreement" are two separate things, and the fact that you're conflating them here tells me you're not a member of a marginalized group
    - bangaladore 2y ago
      This tool cannot prevent harassment and allow disagreement. The author can unilaterally choose what to remove, no matter the reason. When you give someone this capability, you will remove discourse and guarantee echo chambers.
      - KittenInABox 2y ago
        TBH I think part of this is for very large accounts, where there is literally just too much engagement to deal with. You kind of need to be able to filter and create your echo chamber to preserve your sanity and use the application the way it is intended to be used (not some kind of updates-only account). Personally I highly doubt I will ever have a problem where I either need to get engaged by with someone (seems unhinged) or need to click extra buttons to disengage from someone unless I'm being pushed to do so by e.g. an excessively rude person or someone who is behaving unhinged at me. Like these are low stakes. If someone wants to hide polite disagreement, that's cool, they're managing what it means to be their follower and if I don't like it I can stop following them. It has nothing to do with me personally and they're not obligated to receive disagreement because I want them to, that's a weird position to take.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

Show me a perfect solution. I'll wait.

bangaladore 2y ago
Having no solutions may be better than implementing flawed solutions.

CuriousCosmic 2y ago

What makes you think this is a terrible feature. This is a federated service and the company is actively attempting to get the service to a state where it can exist independently of them, preferably without the service fracturing into a bunch of islands, mostly separate from each other (cough mastodon cough). What solution would you propose that's better than this one and how is this solution a net negative (personally I think labelling services are a great approach to the problem)?

bangaladore 2y ago
Community notes have been very effective in retaining public trust while combating misinformation on Twitter/X. This is the polar opposite of that. Delete all opinions you disagree with, no matter the reasons. Echo chambers are not productive. Full stop. It will lead to worse outcomes. I would have a different opinion if they weren't advertising this as a general-purpose way to shut people up. This could work if it were just a method to remove "rule-breaking" posts where some authority would still evaluate the reason for removal.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- verdverm 2y ago
  Community Notes, and their abuse, is one of the reasons I left Xitter. I was a CN editor and saw that it just became another battleground for ideology Bluesky, with ATProto, is putting more control into the author and user hands. You may not like this design change, but many people do. The nice thing about ATProto is that you can write a different UI that doesn't hide or allow for this, and still belong to the social network fabric at large. You don't have to rebuild a new, separate social network from scratch
- CuriousCosmic 2y ago
  They already stated they are planning on adding community notes along with further extending their labelling services. Community Notes doesn't address dog piling though. And unlike twitter, Bluesky & ATProto have no concept of private accounts so when you get dog piled you can't just go priv like you can on twitter until things cool off. This is specifically addressing that problem. i.e. Addressing toxicity. It's not about trying to correct misinformation. The post mentions misinformation in this section only in the context that QRTs are a common way of addressing misinformation and that allowing you to detach could reduce QRTs ability to do that. So while Community Notes should be a preferred method of addressing misinfo, it doesn't do anything to allow users to disengage or avoid toxicity (which is the point of this blog post).

Zenzero 2y ago

Not going to lie, I think Bluesky's effort is good for reducing inflammatory and combative behavior on the internet. So this response: > This is a terrible idea Got a good chuckle from me.

JohnMakin 2y ago
Glad it made you laugh, but in my experience as a moderator, these types of efforts result in the complete opposite and only empower trolls. Like this is 10000% going to happen: someone makes an inflammatory tweet. Bunch of replies, back and forth. The original poster will get someone to say something absolutely horrible when taken out of context of the argument, hide all other replies except the horrible one and act like a victim (while continuing to post inflammatory rage bait). Trolls spreading misinformation will use this to hide any criticism. Serial scammers will do the exact same thing. Not one single thing about this will reduce inflammatory and combative behavior on the internet, let alone bluesky.
- orwin 2y ago
  No, the comments aren't deleted, just hidden for you and your own followers. And it will hid you from the hidden comment owner's community too. Think about it though: how do harassment campaigns start on twitter : do you have someone actively pushing his followers like this: 'you should reply to all his comments and spam his DMs!', or is more like someone responding strongly to your tweets, then his followers starting, w/o coordination to spam you? Now, did I manage to change your opinion a bit?
  - JohnMakin 2y ago
    > No, the comments aren't deleted, just hidden for you and your own followers. I understood this and nowhere in my post did I say I thought they were deleted. "hiding" is barely better and the effect is essentially the same since people aren't often going to go trolling through hidden replies. Nothing about these changes prevent or mitigate the situations you are describing.

lilyball 2y ago

Because quoting is also used as a harassment vector.

mlindner 2y ago
If your goal is to create a space where people can only say nice things and only agree with you, then yeah this a great method to do it. It's a great way to create a tiny bubble of like-minded people and allow you to spiral ever deeper into the bubble as outside debate and challenging of assumptions becomes disallowed.
- lilyball 2y ago
  "Harassment" and "disagreement" are two separate things, and the fact that you're conflating them here tells me you're not a member of a marginalized group
  - bangaladore 2y ago
    This tool cannot prevent harassment and allow disagreement. The author can unilaterally choose what to remove, no matter the reason. When you give someone this capability, you will remove discourse and guarantee echo chambers.
    - KittenInABox 2y ago
      TBH I think part of this is for very large accounts, where there is literally just too much engagement to deal with. You kind of need to be able to filter and create your echo chamber to preserve your sanity and use the application the way it is intended to be used (not some kind of updates-only account). Personally I highly doubt I will ever have a problem where I either need to get engaged by with someone (seems unhinged) or need to click extra buttons to disengage from someone unless I'm being pushed to do so by e.g. an excessively rude person or someone who is behaving unhinged at me. Like these are low stakes. If someone wants to hide polite disagreement, that's cool, they're managing what it means to be their follower and if I don't like it I can stop following them. It has nothing to do with me personally and they're not obligated to receive disagreement because I want them to, that's a weird position to take.