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https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/ https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/ I was lucky to learn early-on that publishing important things to the web meant

by 23B1 2y ago

https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/ https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/ I was lucky to learn early-on that publishing important things to the web meant relinquishing control of not just the IP, but my own agency and fate. The cost far exceeded the benefits of generosity, be it contributions to FOSS, public blogging or documentation, or even just writing. Time is the only fixed resource, and mine is proprietary, exclusive, and for sale to the highest bidder.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Xeoncross 2y ago
Thankfully, others are more altruistic. I have benefited from many developers freely sharing their ideas in forums, code on github, and leanings on blogs. Sure Google has stolen it to build an empire that most are complicit with. Sure OpenAI has stolen it to build products most are supportive of. Sure evil benefits from good, but that doesn't mean we should neglect to help others just to spite them.
- yoyohello13 2y ago
  Nobles exploiting the labor of the peasants. It's how it has always been and how it will always be.
- dingnuts 2y ago
  there's "sharing ideas on forums" and then there's giving all of your source code, public and private, to Microsoft to host, instead of just setting your git remote to user@yourownhost:/path/to/reponame and setting up SSH keys I appreciate the viewpoint of the GP and it's telling that it is downvoted when it is not spam, it is not abusive, and it is fully in-line with the stated and implicit etiquette of this site. It's just unpopular, so people are down-voting it. FOSS is kind of culty and it's very apparent in the reaction to opinions like the OP's. If you don't believe what he said about giving up your agency and your fate when you give away your code online, look into what happened to fommil[0] https://medium.com/@fommil/hide-your-real-name-in-open-source-3d67e74a8c56 https://medium.com/@fommil/hide-your-real-name-in-open-sourc...
- 23B1 2y ago
  I don't need to give my intellectual labor away for free in order to be altruistic.
  - ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
    No, but doing do would make you altruistic.
    - 23B1 2y ago
      Maybe. But volunteering at a soup kitchen or mowing my neighbor's lawn is definitive.
- kelnos 2y ago
  My hope is that there's a middle ground, a way to keep our good deeds for the benefit of other good people, not for the benefit of large corporations that want to leech off of our work. The law usually lags behind technological advancement, and I'm hoping we're just seeing this in action right now, and that over time, better legal protections will be put into place.
- onel 2y ago
  This is such a lovely comment. Well said
CamperBob2 2y ago
Time is the only fixed resource, and mine is proprietary, exclusive, and for sale to the highest bidder. Which seems like a good reason not to waste it on boilerplate drudgery that's been implemented a thousand times before.
- 23B1 2y ago
  It's not like I'm unhappy about people who are altruistic in different ways – indeed I am grateful! But any internet contributor who thinks their free work isn't being exploited in the most perverse and senseless ways is fooling themselves. You're better off volunteering at a rehab clinic or old folks home.
renewiltord 2y ago
Yep, I think that's perfectly defensible. I even will elaborate on HN comments only for a price (listed in profile). But there will be others who will participate in the open-source economy of sharing and they will benefit and we will benefit.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  You’ve already posted eleven thousand comments without people paying you $850 an hour for it, though.
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    Haha, yeah, I'm quite altruistic. Though not nearly as much as you think. Round about 8.5k comments, no?
Karellen 2y ago
> I was lucky to learn early-on that publishing important things to the web meant relinquishing control of not just the IP, but my own agency and fate. Not only is that not true, it's contradicted by the very page you link. That page has a list of links to resources you can use to self-host git repositories you want to publish, so you don't have to give up control of anything. (Although, against GitHub as I am, even I am unable to fathom how publishing things on GitHub could possibly mean relinquishing control of your fate.)
- 23B1 2y ago
  Oh the link was just a 'get off git' page. There's plenty of other ways to 'go around' this consolidation – which is just another way to launder your work to benefit shareholders.
  - latexr 2y ago
    > Oh the link was just a 'get off git' page. No, it’s “get off GitHub”. They even suggest alternatives that still use git. By conflating the two, you’re helping consolidate GitHub’s dominance.
    - 23B1 2y ago
      You may be confused here about github's more recent history.
      - latexr 2y ago
        If you believe so, then please share what you know. Elucidate me. Your comment didn’t advance the conversation in the slightest. For all anyone knows, you’re the confused one (either about GitHub’s history, git’s history, or understanding the comment).
        23B1 2y ago
        I don't believe so, I know so. Trolling doesn't work on me bud. Give up now.
latexr 2y ago
> Time is the only fixed resource Time is not fixed. Neither in physics nor psychology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_perception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_perception Coding for one hour while in a good mood and with a clear head is significantly more productive than coding for eight hours while tired and bored. > mine is proprietary, exclusive, and for sale to the highest bidder. What’s your problem with GitHub, then? All the people who worked on it did exactly that. Seems quite rich to be complaining of the behaviour of others when by your admission you’re for sale to whoever pays.
- 23B1 2y ago
  It is a fixed resource for people; everyone dies. Git was fine until it became a way to launder intellectual labor to benefit MSFT shareholders instead of the people who did the work.
  - latexr 2y ago
    > It is a fixed resource for people; everyone dies. What has dying got to do with it? Everyone dies at different ages and points in time. That’s the opposite of fixed. Again, time isn’t fixed. Even if you sell your time by the hour, not every hour is equally productive. > Git was fine You’re once more conflating git the tool and GitHub the service. They’re separate things and in your own link they recommend alternatives to GitHub which use git. > it became a way to launder intellectual labor to benefit MSFT shareholders instead of the people who did the work. Again, how is that different from what you claim to do? You explicitly said you sell your time to the highest bidder, meaning you’d have done the same if you had been paid for it and thus have no moral high ground. Or you wouldn’t in fact have done it because you have scruples, in which case you don’t really sell your time to the highest bidder but take other factors into account. You can’t have it both ways. Personally I hope you do the latter.
    - 23B1 2y ago
      > What has dying got to do with it? Because your time is not infinite, and therefore fixed. > how is that different from what you claim to do? Because theft under the cover of clickwrap is still theft. This isn't hard.

by 23B1 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Xeoncross 2y ago

Thankfully, others are more altruistic. I have benefited from many developers freely sharing their ideas in forums, code on github, and leanings on blogs. Sure Google has stolen it to build an empire that most are complicit with. Sure OpenAI has stolen it to build products most are supportive of. Sure evil benefits from good, but that doesn't mean we should neglect to help others just to spite them.

yoyohello13 2y ago
Nobles exploiting the labor of the peasants. It's how it has always been and how it will always be.
dingnuts 2y ago
there's "sharing ideas on forums" and then there's giving all of your source code, public and private, to Microsoft to host, instead of just setting your git remote to user@yourownhost:/path/to/reponame and setting up SSH keys I appreciate the viewpoint of the GP and it's telling that it is downvoted when it is not spam, it is not abusive, and it is fully in-line with the stated and implicit etiquette of this site. It's just unpopular, so people are down-voting it. FOSS is kind of culty and it's very apparent in the reaction to opinions like the OP's. If you don't believe what he said about giving up your agency and your fate when you give away your code online, look into what happened to fommil[0] https://medium.com/@fommil/hide-your-real-name-in-open-source-3d67e74a8c56 https://medium.com/@fommil/hide-your-real-name-in-open-sourc...
23B1 2y ago
I don't need to give my intellectual labor away for free in order to be altruistic.
- ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
  No, but doing do would make you altruistic.
  - 23B1 2y ago
    Maybe. But volunteering at a soup kitchen or mowing my neighbor's lawn is definitive.
kelnos 2y ago
My hope is that there's a middle ground, a way to keep our good deeds for the benefit of other good people, not for the benefit of large corporations that want to leech off of our work. The law usually lags behind technological advancement, and I'm hoping we're just seeing this in action right now, and that over time, better legal protections will be put into place.
onel 2y ago
This is such a lovely comment. Well said

CamperBob2 2y ago

Time is the only fixed resource, and mine is proprietary, exclusive, and for sale to the highest bidder. Which seems like a good reason not to waste it on boilerplate drudgery that's been implemented a thousand times before.

23B1 2y ago
It's not like I'm unhappy about people who are altruistic in different ways – indeed I am grateful! But any internet contributor who thinks their free work isn't being exploited in the most perverse and senseless ways is fooling themselves. You're better off volunteering at a rehab clinic or old folks home.

renewiltord 2y ago

Yep, I think that's perfectly defensible. I even will elaborate on HN comments only for a price (listed in profile). But there will be others who will participate in the open-source economy of sharing and they will benefit and we will benefit.

saagarjha 2y ago
You’ve already posted eleven thousand comments without people paying you $850 an hour for it, though.
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Haha, yeah, I'm quite altruistic. Though not nearly as much as you think. Round about 8.5k comments, no?

Karellen 2y ago

> I was lucky to learn early-on that publishing important things to the web meant relinquishing control of not just the IP, but my own agency and fate. Not only is that not true, it's contradicted by the very page you link. That page has a list of links to resources you can use to self-host git repositories you want to publish, so you don't have to give up control of anything. (Although, against GitHub as I am, even I am unable to fathom how publishing things on GitHub could possibly mean relinquishing control of your fate.)

23B1 2y ago
Oh the link was just a 'get off git' page. There's plenty of other ways to 'go around' this consolidation – which is just another way to launder your work to benefit shareholders.
- latexr 2y ago
  > Oh the link was just a 'get off git' page. No, it’s “get off GitHub”. They even suggest alternatives that still use git. By conflating the two, you’re helping consolidate GitHub’s dominance.
  - 23B1 2y ago
    You may be confused here about github's more recent history.
    - latexr 2y ago
      If you believe so, then please share what you know. Elucidate me. Your comment didn’t advance the conversation in the slightest. For all anyone knows, you’re the confused one (either about GitHub’s history, git’s history, or understanding the comment).
      - 23B1 2y ago
        I don't believe so, I know so. Trolling doesn't work on me bud. Give up now.

latexr 2y ago

> Time is the only fixed resource Time is not fixed. Neither in physics nor psychology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_perception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_perception Coding for one hour while in a good mood and with a clear head is significantly more productive than coding for eight hours while tired and bored. > mine is proprietary, exclusive, and for sale to the highest bidder. What’s your problem with GitHub, then? All the people who worked on it did exactly that. Seems quite rich to be complaining of the behaviour of others when by your admission you’re for sale to whoever pays.

23B1 2y ago
It is a fixed resource for people; everyone dies. Git was fine until it became a way to launder intellectual labor to benefit MSFT shareholders instead of the people who did the work.
- latexr 2y ago
  > It is a fixed resource for people; everyone dies. What has dying got to do with it? Everyone dies at different ages and points in time. That’s the opposite of fixed. Again, time isn’t fixed. Even if you sell your time by the hour, not every hour is equally productive. > Git was fine You’re once more conflating git the tool and GitHub the service. They’re separate things and in your own link they recommend alternatives to GitHub which use git. > it became a way to launder intellectual labor to benefit MSFT shareholders instead of the people who did the work. Again, how is that different from what you claim to do? You explicitly said you sell your time to the highest bidder, meaning you’d have done the same if you had been paid for it and thus have no moral high ground. Or you wouldn’t in fact have done it because you have scruples, in which case you don’t really sell your time to the highest bidder but take other factors into account. You can’t have it both ways. Personally I hope you do the latter.
  - 23B1 2y ago
    > What has dying got to do with it? Because your time is not infinite, and therefore fixed. > how is that different from what you claim to do? Because theft under the cover of clickwrap is still theft. This isn't hard.