4 ms·

None of the covid vaccines are gene therapies. The mRNA utilizes your cell's machinery to produce proteins. Gene therapy alter's your cells DNA. Having said th

None of the covid vaccines are gene therapies. The mRNA utilizes your cell's machinery to produce proteins. Gene therapy alter's your cells DNA. Having said that, the vaccine in the article is an attenuated virus vaccine, which is even more traditional than J&J (which utilizes a different virus as its delivery mechanism) Sinovac is an inactived vaccine, which probably makes it the most traditional of the set.

dtech 2y ago
>The mRNA utilizes your cell's machinery to produce proteins Does it? I thought the immune response was purely based on the free floating mRNA (which give a high immune response because that also happens during a highly active viral infection)
- Tor3 2y ago
  No, the mRNA are templates for Covid-19 spike proteins, and the body learns to recognize (and develop an immune response) to said proteins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  > I thought the immune response was purely based on the free floating mRNA I don't think that's inconsistent with the comment you are replying to. That comment described the result, you are describing the method.
- XorNot 2y ago
  No: mRNA is the intermediate transcription stage of protein synthesis: mRNA molecules are synthesized from DNA in the cell nucleus, exit the nucleus and interact with ribosomes which synthesize proteins from them - there's also a suite of modifications and moderating systems (i.e. the short interfering RNA system which marks mRNA for destruction within the cell). mRNA injections are based on the observation that with stabilisation, you'll get limited synthesis of an injected RNA strand by cellular machinery, and then the resultant protein will be presented on the cell surface - this is how the immune system detects active viral infections, since it's the same process: the virus dumps it's payload into the cell and gets its proteins copied up (+ an RNA or DNA polymerase to replicate the genome of the virus, which a vaccine does not have). The magic of this process is that you don't have to handle bespoke proteins for new vaccines: you "just" change the delivered mRNA sequence, and use the same manufacturing line to make it, keeping the chemistry consistent and considerably simpler. It's a refined version of attenuated or live virus vaccines, where you shoot the whole viral system in and it does the same thing - but then you've got to keep a bunch of custom proteins intact and you can't make it as easily.
logicchains 2y ago
The mRNA vaccines don't directly modify the genes but they modify them indirectly via reverse-transcription: https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73 https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73 .
- throwaway119911 2y ago
  Notes that the article claims that the mRNA is transcribed "back" to DNA not that is integrated into genomes: > At this stage, we do not know if DNA reverse transcribed from BNT162b2 is integrated into the cell genome.
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    Also worth noting that the study was in a rather particular cell line that may not be reflective of the average person: > According to the web site huh7.com, it is "a well differentiated hepatocyte-derived carcinoma cell line, originally taken from a liver tumor in a 57-year-old Japanese male in 1982." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huh7 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huh7 Pretty cool that some vendor got that domain name.
g42gregory 2y ago
Moderna (2018) [1]: "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and could act as a source of side effects, mRNA based medicines are designed to not irreversibly change cell DNA; however, side effects observed in gene therapy could negatively impact the perception of mRNA medicines despite the differences in mechanism." Pfizer-BioNTech (2019) [2]: "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and may cause certain side effects, mRNA-based medicines are designed not to irreversibly change cell DNA. Side effects observed in other gene therapies, however, could negatively impact the perception of immunotherapies despite the differences in mechanism." [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000119312518323562/d577473ds1.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000119312518... [2] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1776985/000119312519241112/d635330df1.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1776985/000119312519...

dtech 2y ago

>The mRNA utilizes your cell's machinery to produce proteins Does it? I thought the immune response was purely based on the free floating mRNA (which give a high immune response because that also happens during a highly active viral infection)

Tor3 2y ago
No, the mRNA are templates for Covid-19 spike proteins, and the body learns to recognize (and develop an immune response) to said proteins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine
ruthmarx 2y ago
> I thought the immune response was purely based on the free floating mRNA I don't think that's inconsistent with the comment you are replying to. That comment described the result, you are describing the method.
XorNot 2y ago
No: mRNA is the intermediate transcription stage of protein synthesis: mRNA molecules are synthesized from DNA in the cell nucleus, exit the nucleus and interact with ribosomes which synthesize proteins from them - there's also a suite of modifications and moderating systems (i.e. the short interfering RNA system which marks mRNA for destruction within the cell). mRNA injections are based on the observation that with stabilisation, you'll get limited synthesis of an injected RNA strand by cellular machinery, and then the resultant protein will be presented on the cell surface - this is how the immune system detects active viral infections, since it's the same process: the virus dumps it's payload into the cell and gets its proteins copied up (+ an RNA or DNA polymerase to replicate the genome of the virus, which a vaccine does not have). The magic of this process is that you don't have to handle bespoke proteins for new vaccines: you "just" change the delivered mRNA sequence, and use the same manufacturing line to make it, keeping the chemistry consistent and considerably simpler. It's a refined version of attenuated or live virus vaccines, where you shoot the whole viral system in and it does the same thing - but then you've got to keep a bunch of custom proteins intact and you can't make it as easily.

logicchains 2y ago

The mRNA vaccines don't directly modify the genes but they modify them indirectly via reverse-transcription: https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73 https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73 .

throwaway119911 2y ago
Notes that the article claims that the mRNA is transcribed "back" to DNA not that is integrated into genomes: > At this stage, we do not know if DNA reverse transcribed from BNT162b2 is integrated into the cell genome.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  Also worth noting that the study was in a rather particular cell line that may not be reflective of the average person: > According to the web site huh7.com, it is "a well differentiated hepatocyte-derived carcinoma cell line, originally taken from a liver tumor in a 57-year-old Japanese male in 1982." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huh7 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huh7 Pretty cool that some vendor got that domain name.

g42gregory 2y ago

Moderna (2018) [1]: "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and could act as a source of side effects, mRNA based medicines are designed to not irreversibly change cell DNA; however, side effects observed in gene therapy could negatively impact the perception of mRNA medicines despite the differences in mechanism." Pfizer-BioNTech (2019) [2]: "Currently, mRNA is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA. Unlike certain gene therapies that irreversibly alter cell DNA and may cause certain side effects, mRNA-based medicines are designed not to irreversibly change cell DNA. Side effects observed in other gene therapies, however, could negatively impact the perception of immunotherapies despite the differences in mechanism." [1] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000119312518323562/d577473ds1.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1682852/000119312518... [2] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1776985/000119312519241112/d635330df1.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1776985/000119312519...