12 ms·

Pretty impressive, if true that it can stop infection, and potentially then transmission. Nasal vaccines have the ability to do this because of the potental for

Pretty impressive, if true that it can stop infection, and potentially then transmission. Nasal vaccines have the ability to do this because of the potental for neutralizing activity along the nasal muscosa. They make the claim so we'll have to see. I currently use a nitric oxide nasal spray as the nose is the major area to protect (and also use probiotic lozenges of the k12 strain for the throat). --- “The vaccine offers potent protection against transmission, prevents reinfection and the spread of the virus, while also reducing the generation of new variants,” Dr Liu said. “Unlike the mRNA vaccine which targets only the spike protein, CDO-7N-1 induces immunity to all major SARS-CoV-2 proteins and is highly effective against all major variants to date. “Importantly, the vaccine remains stable at 4°C for seven months, making it ideal for low- and middle-income countries.” ---

aaron695 2y ago
> neutralizing activity along the nasal muscosa. Low humidity drying the nose out seems to be why planes and winter are when SARS-CoV-2 and flus are so contagious. I've been using a generic nasal inhaler when flying, but it's not clear if that would work in practice. > nitric oxide nasal spray as the nose is the major area to protect Reading your comment you would believe a nitric oxide nasal spray would be a good preventative when flying?
- fffernan 2y ago
  Even better is to wear a mask (not to prevent virus from coming in that's silly air gets around it) but to keep your nasal passages moist during a high altitude flight. Japanese have known this for years and why they wear masks so much.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - abc123abc123 2y ago
    In summary, while wearing a face mask might offer minimal benefits in terms of retaining some moisture around your nasal passages due to breath capture and reduced airflow exposure to dry cabin air, it does not effectively keep them moist during high altitude flights. The primary concern remains that airplane cabins are inherently dry environments that can lead to discomfort regardless of whether one wears a mask. Thus, wearing a face mask will not effectively keep your nasal passages moist during a high altitude flight.
    - cujo 2y ago
      Why wouldn't it keep nasal passages moist? If I wear a mask very long, the environment under it becomes a relative sauna.
    - amelius 2y ago
      In summary? You just said the complete opposite of what was said before.
      - evertedsphere 2y ago
        isn't that an llm tic
  - wrp 2y ago
    I wear masks on planes for this reason, also with goggle-style glasses. Through inadvertent A/B testing, I have some support that they are effective. I also use eye and nose moisturizers rather than just rely on covering up. I used to catch a bug every time I flew but have now mostly eliminated that.
  - amelius 2y ago
    Isn't it much more comfortable to use a nose-spray once every hour or so?
  - trog 2y ago
    Fit-tested respirators - not masks - do not allow unfiltered air in, which helps prevents the virus from entering your system at all. People need to differentiate between the generic term "mask" and "respirator".
  - rob_c 2y ago
    Can't disagree to doing that for that benefit. If only we had better air systems to go with these $1,000 tickets , but that's demanding a lot from the makers of 737max and such :p
    - ein0p 2y ago
      IIRC the airlines did improve filtering of air in the cabin, but I think this is basically moot - you’re stuck in a hermetic, pressurized can with hundreds of other people and some percentage of them is exhaling viral droplets into the air that’s force circulated through the cabin. Unless you’re wearing a hazmat suit, you’ll be exposed.
      - rob_c 2y ago
        I'm not talking about viral/bacterial factors here, clearly a better filter with a better humidity system doesn't cause you to end up with a dry throat. I'm not talking about exposure to people your in the same goldfish bowl as, that's a guaranteed to happen when you bump into people getting your bags outside...
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      Airplanes have about 12-15 air changes per hour they are flying, and the air that is recycled, less than half, is going through standard HEPA filters and are rated to capture virus and bacteria particles. My less empirical info is that airflow in a plane mostly goes from being input above your head, and exhausted from the pressurized cabin at your feet, meaning you have less exposure to anyone not in your row. Remember that aircraft pressurization systems were designed to be smoked in, other than the newest designs. They needed enough airflow to not totally choke out passengers on a cross country or cross atlantic trip.
      - wnissen 2y ago
        Are you able to square the levels of CO2 on planes, which are 1000-1800 ppm, so over 2-3x atmospheric air, with the 12-15 ACH? I don't understand how those two things can be true.
  - Krssst 2y ago
    For a high altitude flight, going straight for the N95 would make sense to me. In such a situation one probably paid good money for the flight and spent time organizing the trip to wherever it was, having it be all for nothing because of catching something would be a waste.
    - jerlam 2y ago
      From a cost/benefit perspective, it's definitely slanted towards wearing the N95. Given all the other discomforts of flying, wearing a respirator is a minor problem. Passengers are not likely to have long, emotional conversations during a flight where a mask might be uncomfortable or inhibit communication. But there is the food/drink issue, if someone considers those to be important.
  - hnarn 2y ago
    > Even better is to wear a mask (not to prevent virus from coming in that's silly air gets around it) That obviously depends on how you define a "mask", a "medical mask" has a very different efficacy from an N95.[1] [1]: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...
  - jonpurdy 2y ago
    On this topic, I recently got officially fit-tested for N95 masks (specifically 3M 9210+). They put a cover over your head and spray in a bitter substance; if you taste it, the mask fit fails. (You can also do this test at home if you have the supplies.) I started wearing N95s on flights since KF94 ear loop masks would hurt my ears after a few hours. Inadvertently realized during fit-testing that the KF94s let so much air around the edges that they were much less effective than I had assumed, so I basically just use my N95 when needed indoors anywhere. Also found that other 3M mask models didn't fit my face as effectively (failed the test almost immediately). Highly recommended to go with fit-tested N95s (if not already using something even better like a respirator). Edit: I should mention I've flown SF to Toronto a few times since the pandemic started and air quality on planes is quite terrible despite what airlines say. Lowest CO2 concentration around 1800 ppm, and highest I've seen has been 3000+ ppm (during boarding). (420ppm outdoor average at sea level, and anything about 1000ppm I'd wear a mask indoors.)
    - MobileVet 2y ago
      How are you testing air quality on the plane? I am also curious how you connect CO2 levels to pathogen levels. Would a carbon filtration system adjust the CO2 levels at the same rate as pathogens?
      - sneak 2y ago
        co2 levels are an inverse proxy for incoming fresh air fraction. this is of course inversely correlated with pathogen concentration (presuming that fresh incoming air from outside is relatively pathogen-free). they aren’t directly correlated, it’s just a proxy. ventilation reduces both.
        MobileVet 2y ago
        Makes sense, thanks for the reply
      - jonpurdy 2y ago
        aranet4 CO2 monitor that I bring with me. 2xAA batteries allow it to go for a year or more, and I can pull the readings via Bluetooth to my phone to look at historical data. As sneak also replied, it's just a proxy: higher CO2 correlates to higher chance of breathing in pathogens, but doesn't take into consideration filtration.
  - btown 2y ago
    Physically, the probability that an aerosolized particle enters your body is lower with a mask than without one, as at least some airflow will go through the mask and carry particles onto the mask surface. How much lower, of course, is difficult to predict. It’s worth noting in this context that masks have been shown to protect the wearer, not just to prevent the wearer transmitting viruses. See e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  > winter is when SARS-CoV-2 and flus are so contagious Influenza may be a seasonal virus, but SARS-CoV-2 is not. There can be and in fact are "summer waves" driven by new variants, not weather. Source e.g. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240719-why-covid-19-is-spreading-this-summer https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240719-why-covid-19-is-... "Covid-19 doesn't follow normal seasonal patterns, like other respiratory viruses – waves of infection can happen at any time of year."
- Angostura 2y ago
  Is there evidence for this? The typical theory is that during winter, you get more people indoors, in close proximity with poor ventilation- similarly planes is just about a large number of people sitting in close proximity for an extended period.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > The typical theory is that during winter, you get more people indoors, in close proximity with poor ventilation Covid by far is no longer a "winter only" thing. The US has a record covid wave [1], so does Germany [2] and the UK [3]. Unfortunately politicians worldwide have pretty much given up preventing Covid transmission, mostly due to the serious backlash from shortsighted large employers and the far-right - some places like Nassau County (NY, US) even ban people from wearing masks [4] to protect themselves. Not to mention large parts of the population itself - try wearing a mask in public these days, people will either look at you like you're some sort of madman or they'll just outright assault you [5]. And all of that despite serious indicators that even minor measures like air filters in kindergartens and schools massively reduce sick times... it's truly maddening, air filters don't impact anyone, they're cheap to operate. But people don't want any kind of reminder of the lockdown era, they sometimes even violently respond to that. We regulate literally everything needed for survival... our water gets tested to make sure it's free of contaminants, food and medicine production of all kinds has to comply with very strict requirements, noise polluters such as cars, trucks and heavy machinery get regulated... but the air we breathe? Nothing except particulate emissions from cars and industry gets regulated. Children have to learn in schools no matter how hot, humid, CO2-overloaded or moldy it is. Workers enjoy barely any protection as well. And it takes a massive amount of mold for a residential building to be declared unfit for living, maintaining air-condition installations (especially filters) isn't a requirement, which means landlords can get away with a lot of shit... It's a disgrace how far we have all fallen. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/16/health/covid-largest-summer-wave/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/16/health/covid-largest-summ... [2] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/07/17/bxrf-j17.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/07/17/bxrf-j17.html [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ck5g2jk0730o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ck5g2jk0730o [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/08/27/nassau-mask-ban/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/08/27/nassau-mask... [5] https://www.newsweek.com/will-keenan-attacked-wearing-face-mask-covid-debbie-rochon-1826686 https://www.newsweek.com/will-keenan-attacked-wearing-face-m...
rob_c 2y ago
[flagged]
- msy 2y ago
  You’re accusing someone of ‘extreme hypochondria’ for saying a new vaccine is exciting. That is not a ‘clear question’, it’s a baseless accusation.
  - rob_c 2y ago
    No I am not. I'm stating that this is odd from my perspective. If I were doing that I'd be saying "you're a hypochondriac" Please learn to spoken
    - akerr 2y ago
      There are other possibilities beyond the two you gave. For example, I read of an n=1 study where a doctor was self-administering nasal heparin and was yet to get sick. You might have a genuine question but it was rude to frame it has an assumption or accusation. Furthermore your follow up is dismissive of the whole community. Please reflect on your behaviour and try to do better in future.
      - rob_c 2y ago
        I only got upity after communal negative response which I think is justified. That's cause and effect. For sake of being nice I'll assume you're being nice rather than condescending. Again, no this is not an accusation but let's rephrase, RFC: Given above information. If I interpret it one way I understand you to be imunocopromised which is missing, Or if I interpret it another way I find your actions to be as one might describe as extreme hypocondrea aka non sensical unless I'm missing some detail. The reasonable responses from a normal person are; Yes, I am I forgot to mention; I just don't want to get sick, this is my level of risk assessment which may differ from yours; No, see third or fourth alternative you didn't consider. There is no subconscious bias here, other than to explain my clear bias in understanding. I'm explaining why it makes no sense to me and asking if they can clarify. Again I'm not saying a person is behaving a certain way other than the community is deciding to read heavily negatively into a short paraphrased question. This is the attitude as to why things like irc died...

aaron695 2y ago

> neutralizing activity along the nasal muscosa. Low humidity drying the nose out seems to be why planes and winter are when SARS-CoV-2 and flus are so contagious. I've been using a generic nasal inhaler when flying, but it's not clear if that would work in practice. > nitric oxide nasal spray as the nose is the major area to protect Reading your comment you would believe a nitric oxide nasal spray would be a good preventative when flying?

fffernan 2y ago
Even better is to wear a mask (not to prevent virus from coming in that's silly air gets around it) but to keep your nasal passages moist during a high altitude flight. Japanese have known this for years and why they wear masks so much.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- abc123abc123 2y ago
  In summary, while wearing a face mask might offer minimal benefits in terms of retaining some moisture around your nasal passages due to breath capture and reduced airflow exposure to dry cabin air, it does not effectively keep them moist during high altitude flights. The primary concern remains that airplane cabins are inherently dry environments that can lead to discomfort regardless of whether one wears a mask. Thus, wearing a face mask will not effectively keep your nasal passages moist during a high altitude flight.
  - cujo 2y ago
    Why wouldn't it keep nasal passages moist? If I wear a mask very long, the environment under it becomes a relative sauna.
  - amelius 2y ago
    In summary? You just said the complete opposite of what was said before.
    - evertedsphere 2y ago
      isn't that an llm tic
- wrp 2y ago
  I wear masks on planes for this reason, also with goggle-style glasses. Through inadvertent A/B testing, I have some support that they are effective. I also use eye and nose moisturizers rather than just rely on covering up. I used to catch a bug every time I flew but have now mostly eliminated that.
- amelius 2y ago
  Isn't it much more comfortable to use a nose-spray once every hour or so?
- trog 2y ago
  Fit-tested respirators - not masks - do not allow unfiltered air in, which helps prevents the virus from entering your system at all. People need to differentiate between the generic term "mask" and "respirator".
- rob_c 2y ago
  Can't disagree to doing that for that benefit. If only we had better air systems to go with these $1,000 tickets , but that's demanding a lot from the makers of 737max and such :p
  - ein0p 2y ago
    IIRC the airlines did improve filtering of air in the cabin, but I think this is basically moot - you’re stuck in a hermetic, pressurized can with hundreds of other people and some percentage of them is exhaling viral droplets into the air that’s force circulated through the cabin. Unless you’re wearing a hazmat suit, you’ll be exposed.
    - rob_c 2y ago
      I'm not talking about viral/bacterial factors here, clearly a better filter with a better humidity system doesn't cause you to end up with a dry throat. I'm not talking about exposure to people your in the same goldfish bowl as, that's a guaranteed to happen when you bump into people getting your bags outside...
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    Airplanes have about 12-15 air changes per hour they are flying, and the air that is recycled, less than half, is going through standard HEPA filters and are rated to capture virus and bacteria particles. My less empirical info is that airflow in a plane mostly goes from being input above your head, and exhausted from the pressurized cabin at your feet, meaning you have less exposure to anyone not in your row. Remember that aircraft pressurization systems were designed to be smoked in, other than the newest designs. They needed enough airflow to not totally choke out passengers on a cross country or cross atlantic trip.
    - wnissen 2y ago
      Are you able to square the levels of CO2 on planes, which are 1000-1800 ppm, so over 2-3x atmospheric air, with the 12-15 ACH? I don't understand how those two things can be true.
- Krssst 2y ago
  For a high altitude flight, going straight for the N95 would make sense to me. In such a situation one probably paid good money for the flight and spent time organizing the trip to wherever it was, having it be all for nothing because of catching something would be a waste.
  - jerlam 2y ago
    From a cost/benefit perspective, it's definitely slanted towards wearing the N95. Given all the other discomforts of flying, wearing a respirator is a minor problem. Passengers are not likely to have long, emotional conversations during a flight where a mask might be uncomfortable or inhibit communication. But there is the food/drink issue, if someone considers those to be important.
- hnarn 2y ago
  > Even better is to wear a mask (not to prevent virus from coming in that's silly air gets around it) That obviously depends on how you define a "mask", a "medical mask" has a very different efficacy from an N95.[1] [1]: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/i...
- jonpurdy 2y ago
  On this topic, I recently got officially fit-tested for N95 masks (specifically 3M 9210+). They put a cover over your head and spray in a bitter substance; if you taste it, the mask fit fails. (You can also do this test at home if you have the supplies.) I started wearing N95s on flights since KF94 ear loop masks would hurt my ears after a few hours. Inadvertently realized during fit-testing that the KF94s let so much air around the edges that they were much less effective than I had assumed, so I basically just use my N95 when needed indoors anywhere. Also found that other 3M mask models didn't fit my face as effectively (failed the test almost immediately). Highly recommended to go with fit-tested N95s (if not already using something even better like a respirator). Edit: I should mention I've flown SF to Toronto a few times since the pandemic started and air quality on planes is quite terrible despite what airlines say. Lowest CO2 concentration around 1800 ppm, and highest I've seen has been 3000+ ppm (during boarding). (420ppm outdoor average at sea level, and anything about 1000ppm I'd wear a mask indoors.)
  - MobileVet 2y ago
    How are you testing air quality on the plane? I am also curious how you connect CO2 levels to pathogen levels. Would a carbon filtration system adjust the CO2 levels at the same rate as pathogens?
    - sneak 2y ago
      co2 levels are an inverse proxy for incoming fresh air fraction. this is of course inversely correlated with pathogen concentration (presuming that fresh incoming air from outside is relatively pathogen-free). they aren’t directly correlated, it’s just a proxy. ventilation reduces both.
      - MobileVet 2y ago
        Makes sense, thanks for the reply
    - jonpurdy 2y ago
      aranet4 CO2 monitor that I bring with me. 2xAA batteries allow it to go for a year or more, and I can pull the readings via Bluetooth to my phone to look at historical data. As sneak also replied, it's just a proxy: higher CO2 correlates to higher chance of breathing in pathogens, but doesn't take into consideration filtration.
- btown 2y ago
  Physically, the probability that an aerosolized particle enters your body is lower with a mask than without one, as at least some airflow will go through the mask and carry particles onto the mask surface. How much lower, of course, is difficult to predict. It’s worth noting in this context that masks have been shown to protect the wearer, not just to prevent the wearer transmitting viruses. See e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm
SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
> winter is when SARS-CoV-2 and flus are so contagious Influenza may be a seasonal virus, but SARS-CoV-2 is not. There can be and in fact are "summer waves" driven by new variants, not weather. Source e.g. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240719-why-covid-19-is-spreading-this-summer https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240719-why-covid-19-is-... "Covid-19 doesn't follow normal seasonal patterns, like other respiratory viruses – waves of infection can happen at any time of year."
Angostura 2y ago
Is there evidence for this? The typical theory is that during winter, you get more people indoors, in close proximity with poor ventilation- similarly planes is just about a large number of people sitting in close proximity for an extended period.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > The typical theory is that during winter, you get more people indoors, in close proximity with poor ventilation Covid by far is no longer a "winter only" thing. The US has a record covid wave [1], so does Germany [2] and the UK [3]. Unfortunately politicians worldwide have pretty much given up preventing Covid transmission, mostly due to the serious backlash from shortsighted large employers and the far-right - some places like Nassau County (NY, US) even ban people from wearing masks [4] to protect themselves. Not to mention large parts of the population itself - try wearing a mask in public these days, people will either look at you like you're some sort of madman or they'll just outright assault you [5]. And all of that despite serious indicators that even minor measures like air filters in kindergartens and schools massively reduce sick times... it's truly maddening, air filters don't impact anyone, they're cheap to operate. But people don't want any kind of reminder of the lockdown era, they sometimes even violently respond to that. We regulate literally everything needed for survival... our water gets tested to make sure it's free of contaminants, food and medicine production of all kinds has to comply with very strict requirements, noise polluters such as cars, trucks and heavy machinery get regulated... but the air we breathe? Nothing except particulate emissions from cars and industry gets regulated. Children have to learn in schools no matter how hot, humid, CO2-overloaded or moldy it is. Workers enjoy barely any protection as well. And it takes a massive amount of mold for a residential building to be declared unfit for living, maintaining air-condition installations (especially filters) isn't a requirement, which means landlords can get away with a lot of shit... It's a disgrace how far we have all fallen. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/16/health/covid-largest-summer-wave/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/16/health/covid-largest-summ... [2] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/07/17/bxrf-j17.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/07/17/bxrf-j17.html [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ck5g2jk0730o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ck5g2jk0730o [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/08/27/nassau-mask-ban/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/08/27/nassau-mask... [5] https://www.newsweek.com/will-keenan-attacked-wearing-face-mask-covid-debbie-rochon-1826686 https://www.newsweek.com/will-keenan-attacked-wearing-face-m...

rob_c 2y ago

[flagged]

msy 2y ago
You’re accusing someone of ‘extreme hypochondria’ for saying a new vaccine is exciting. That is not a ‘clear question’, it’s a baseless accusation.
- rob_c 2y ago
  No I am not. I'm stating that this is odd from my perspective. If I were doing that I'd be saying "you're a hypochondriac" Please learn to spoken
  - akerr 2y ago
    There are other possibilities beyond the two you gave. For example, I read of an n=1 study where a doctor was self-administering nasal heparin and was yet to get sick. You might have a genuine question but it was rude to frame it has an assumption or accusation. Furthermore your follow up is dismissive of the whole community. Please reflect on your behaviour and try to do better in future.
    - rob_c 2y ago
      I only got upity after communal negative response which I think is justified. That's cause and effect. For sake of being nice I'll assume you're being nice rather than condescending. Again, no this is not an accusation but let's rephrase, RFC: Given above information. If I interpret it one way I understand you to be imunocopromised which is missing, Or if I interpret it another way I find your actions to be as one might describe as extreme hypocondrea aka non sensical unless I'm missing some detail. The reasonable responses from a normal person are; Yes, I am I forgot to mention; I just don't want to get sick, this is my level of risk assessment which may differ from yours; No, see third or fourth alternative you didn't consider. There is no subconscious bias here, other than to explain my clear bias in understanding. I'm explaining why it makes no sense to me and asking if they can clarify. Again I'm not saying a person is behaving a certain way other than the community is deciding to read heavily negatively into a short paraphrased question. This is the attitude as to why things like irc died...