31 ms·

Ppl's obsessions (on both sides) on taxes is so weird. Governments can fund themselves in numerous ways, not just taxes. Either way you'll pay. The key issue

Ppl's obsessions (on both sides) on taxes is so weird. Governments can fund themselves in numerous ways, not just taxes. Either way you'll pay. The key issue is do we want a federal government expenditure of 20-25% of the economy? I'd say no.

Loughla 2y ago
What other ways are there?
- sbsudbdjd 2y ago
  Glad you asked. There's the obvious three ways to finance government: - Taxes - debt financing - seignorage The latter two aren't taxes, but people end up paying for the expenses anyway. Governments can also plunder other country's money. While this sounds very Roman empire, it's still a thing. Case in point freezing another country's foreign exchange reserves, refusing to return their gold, confiscating the interest on the reserves, etc
amrocha 2y ago
This is such a stupid argument. Is your issue that the number is too high? Why? What’s the right number? Should government spend 25% percent of GDP? Who cares. Governments shouldn’t aim for a specific number, they should spend enough to make sure full employment is achieved, according to saving desires and the private market’s appetite for investment. Whatever the private market isn’t willing to invest, the government should take care of. Whether that’s 10% or 50% is literally irrelevant.
- imgabe 2y ago
  The government only gets money by skimming off the top of private enterprise. If the percentage is too high then there’s nothing left to skim and the system collapses, so yes we should care what the percentage is and we should want it to be as low as possible. We should be demanding ruthless efficiency from the government, not dreaming up new ways for them to take our stuff.
  - amrocha 2y ago
    No, you have no idea how sovereign economies work. Taxes don’t fund government spending. Learn about economics before you complain about the number being too high.
    - imgabe 2y ago
      > Taxes don’t fund government spending. Cool, then let's just do away with them altogether. This is great news. All those people saying I needed to pay taxes so I can have roads and schools and a military and everything must be wrong.
      - amrocha 2y ago
        Again, go read up on economics. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
        imgabe 2y ago
        Smugly insinuating that you’re right without providing any sort of reasoning does not make you look as cool and smart as you think it does.
        amrocha 2y ago
        You arguments so far have been “the number is too big” and “let’s get rid of all taxes” so I don’t feel like you’re very serious about having a discussion.
        imgabe 2y ago
        Look, if you actually knew what you were talking about you would be able to explain it in a few sentences. I'm guessing you're misremembering something you never really understood from the econ elective you took in college ten years ago and so all you can do is say "go read a book" because you don't really understand it beyond a vague notion that taxes are somehow unnecessary to fund the government. Like, just as a basic common sense test, if it were possible for the government to spend as much as it wants without taxes, why wouldn't a politician implement that, eliminate taxes, and immediately become the most popular politician in the history of the world? If it were as easy as you say, surely that would have happened. Since it hasn't happened, it stands to reason that maybe you don't know what you're talking about when you say the government doesn't need taxes to fund spending.

Loughla 2y ago

What other ways are there?

sbsudbdjd 2y ago
Glad you asked. There's the obvious three ways to finance government: - Taxes - debt financing - seignorage The latter two aren't taxes, but people end up paying for the expenses anyway. Governments can also plunder other country's money. While this sounds very Roman empire, it's still a thing. Case in point freezing another country's foreign exchange reserves, refusing to return their gold, confiscating the interest on the reserves, etc

amrocha 2y ago

This is such a stupid argument. Is your issue that the number is too high? Why? What’s the right number? Should government spend 25% percent of GDP? Who cares. Governments shouldn’t aim for a specific number, they should spend enough to make sure full employment is achieved, according to saving desires and the private market’s appetite for investment. Whatever the private market isn’t willing to invest, the government should take care of. Whether that’s 10% or 50% is literally irrelevant.

imgabe 2y ago
The government only gets money by skimming off the top of private enterprise. If the percentage is too high then there’s nothing left to skim and the system collapses, so yes we should care what the percentage is and we should want it to be as low as possible. We should be demanding ruthless efficiency from the government, not dreaming up new ways for them to take our stuff.
- amrocha 2y ago
  No, you have no idea how sovereign economies work. Taxes don’t fund government spending. Learn about economics before you complain about the number being too high.
  - imgabe 2y ago
    > Taxes don’t fund government spending. Cool, then let's just do away with them altogether. This is great news. All those people saying I needed to pay taxes so I can have roads and schools and a military and everything must be wrong.
    - amrocha 2y ago
      Again, go read up on economics. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
      - imgabe 2y ago
        Smugly insinuating that you’re right without providing any sort of reasoning does not make you look as cool and smart as you think it does.
        amrocha 2y ago
        You arguments so far have been “the number is too big” and “let’s get rid of all taxes” so I don’t feel like you’re very serious about having a discussion.
        imgabe 2y ago
        Look, if you actually knew what you were talking about you would be able to explain it in a few sentences. I'm guessing you're misremembering something you never really understood from the econ elective you took in college ten years ago and so all you can do is say "go read a book" because you don't really understand it beyond a vague notion that taxes are somehow unnecessary to fund the government. Like, just as a basic common sense test, if it were possible for the government to spend as much as it wants without taxes, why wouldn't a politician implement that, eliminate taxes, and immediately become the most popular politician in the history of the world? If it were as easy as you say, surely that would have happened. Since it hasn't happened, it stands to reason that maybe you don't know what you're talking about when you say the government doesn't need taxes to fund spending.