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How does that work here? Say I have that toothbrush, the app, and say I had to sign up to use it. What they know is how long the toothbrush is on. How are they

How does that work here? Say I have that toothbrush, the app, and say I had to sign up to use it. What they know is how long the toothbrush is on. How are they going to monetize that data?

flerchin 2y ago
I'd always thought that it was about any other data they can slurp from your phone. Presumably knowing your hygiene habits is valuable when correlated with your facebook activty. Just having a list of people that overspend on this type of tech and have the app installed is probably valuable. tl;dr IDK but they don't do it without a profit motive.
lofaszvanitt 2y ago
Like if the average user uses it for 15 seconds, it might signal them that the existing brushes need to be wider/longer/arced, so users can clean their teeth efficiently in that timeframe. And yeah, the usual electric toothbrushes are terrible slow since the brush heads are in the size of one teeth, instead of 3-4.
willcipriano 2y ago
You know the underpants gnomes, it's like that: Step 1: collect data Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit Hopefully you sell the company between Step 1 and 2.
wholinator2 2y ago
Well, say the app requests access to your contacts... so you can link up with friends! Or your files... so it can save your data locally! Or your location... well i don't know. The app doesn't only check your bruhing habits, it's 300mb! At any point it could be updated to do any amount of spying and you'll never be able to tell
- Bluestein 2y ago
  > link up with friends! Competitive brushing!
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    That is the first thing I see in this thread that has a remote chance of being a legitimate feature! There are people who have trouble brushing regularly, and perhaps it could help some of them.
    - Bluestein 2y ago
      (You know what? Great point, actually ...)
  - ahazred8ta 2y ago
    Oral Peloton
    - anakaine 2y ago
      A group of cyclists is known as a Peloton. Do with that what you will with regards to "Oral Peloton".
      - Bluestein 2y ago
        We need a motto. Let's A/B "Where the only teeth inlvolved are in gears!".-
uhtred 2y ago
What permissions does the app ask for? Most likely location for some bullshit Bluetooth feature, and no doubt they request other permissions like contacts and media so you can share with friends that you clean your teeth. Hey, now oral b know where you are all the time, who you know etc
- kjellsbells 2y ago
  Looking at my android...notifications and nearby BT devices. Thats it.
johndough 2y ago
> What they know is how long the toothbrush is on. How are they going to monetize that data? "We noticed that brushing takes you X seconds longer than usual. Do you want to buy new bristles for your tooth brush?" "We noticed you haven't used our tooth brush in a while. Do you want to buy our new tooth brush?" "We noticed that you started brushing your teeth earlier than usual. This probably means that you started a new job and can afford our new deluxe premium tooth brush." "We noticed that you brush your teeth later than usual. That probably means that you met with someone who you can recommend our amazing tooth brush to." "We noticed that your tooth brushing times are all over the place, so you probably had a child. Buy our new baby tooth brush." And that is just from the time you brush your teeth. However, the app also collections "Health and fitness and Device or other IDs" according to the app description: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pg.oralb.oralbapp&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pg.oralb.o... That means that Oral B can link that data with the data harvested from other apps or data brokers, so they probably know everything about you. Health data seems especially creepy to me. I wonder if it is possible to measure the effectiveness of an advertisement from the heart rate data. At least they can definitely tell if you brush longer after seeing their latest Oral B add on TV/YouTube/some website.
- mturmon 2y ago
  Yeah, regarding your first point -- the replacement brushes are also an Oral-B product, so prompting for frequent replacement of the brushes would be a way to make more money.
  - mbirth 2y ago
    In my Sonicare, the brush heads have an NFC chip in them that stores the “runtime”. After xx uses an icon starts blinking on the handle and the app will tell you that the brush head needs to be replaced. But at least you’re free to ignore that and continue using it.
    - mrwizardno2 2y ago
      For now... Just wait, some bright-eyed underling will undoubtedly see this comment and then pitch their boss: "Man, oh man! I know how we can increase revenue, let's DISABLE brush heads when they hit 90 days and FORCE the user to buy a new one!" You've just doomed us all. >.< hah!
alasdair_ 2y ago
Sell it to dental insurance companies who charge different amounts depending on how frequently you brush your teeth and for how long?
- kuhl 2y ago
  This is what Beam Dental did. They used to make a toothbrush and I'm betting they now license their tech to toothbrush makers and act as the middle man for dental insurance companies.
kelnos 2y ago
I can think of a few things at least: * Collect data on brushing frequency and thoroughness, and sell that data to dental insurance companies. Perhaps not even anonymized, so they can raise your premiums if you don't brush as often or as well as they'd like. * Nag you to buy brush replacements after a certain amount of time or certain number of uses. * Use dark patterns to trick you into giving access to other, unrelated data on your phone, and sell this data to third parties. * Market their other products to you, or even perhaps suggest other things (sold by marketing partners) to buy, like different kinds of toothpaste, floss, mouthwash, etc.
- api 2y ago
  That's why most apps exist, which is why I try to install as few apps as possible.
- JasserInicide 2y ago
  so they can raise your premiums if you don't brush as often or as well as they'd like. Shit's already fucking happening with car insurance. Install their app to reduce your premium! It's only a matter of time before it's the other way around.
- al2o3cr 2y ago
  sell that data to dental insurance companies I know of at least one startup that tried this the other way - started with a networked toothbrush and created a dental insurer that tracked how much you used it. They've pivoted away from that to general benefits management (basically every flavor of job-connected insurance that isn't major medical), FWIW...
pfdietz 2y ago
"Here's a list of consumers who were gullible enough to install our app!"
conductr 2y ago
They want you to buy new head and they will annoy, I mean notify you, until you do so via the app.
noman-land 2y ago
Having an app on someone's phone is a huge attention and data opportunity. You get permissions to whatever you ask for. The unsavvy user will click yes. You get a push notification channel that can interrupt the user ANY time of day or night and get their immediate attention. Suggesting products and "deals". Use your imagination. Think like an asshole.
chemmail 2y ago
China pays big bucks for the data so they know exactly when everyone is brushing their teeth and know exactly what time to attack.
somedude895 2y ago
The app probably makes you enter personal information like age and location, which is already very valuable. But honestly I'd say that it's probably more about them being able to market their own products to you by displaying ads and sending you push notifications on new deals on brushes, rather than selling your data to third parties.
genocidicbunny 2y ago
That sort of data can be extremely useful to pattern someone. Most people brush their teeth either in the morning, or before bedtime (or both ideally.) So just knowing _when_ they're brushing their teeth you can determine their sleep pattern, and thus match that up somewhat to a timezone. On it's own this isn't incredibly useful, but combined with some other data it becomes a lot more useful to identify someone.

How does that work here? Say I have that toothbrush, the app, and say I had to sign up to use it. What they know is how long the toothbrush is on. How are they going to monetize that data?

flerchin 2y ago

I'd always thought that it was about any other data they can slurp from your phone. Presumably knowing your hygiene habits is valuable when correlated with your facebook activty. Just having a list of people that overspend on this type of tech and have the app installed is probably valuable. tl;dr IDK but they don't do it without a profit motive.

lofaszvanitt 2y ago

Like if the average user uses it for 15 seconds, it might signal them that the existing brushes need to be wider/longer/arced, so users can clean their teeth efficiently in that timeframe. And yeah, the usual electric toothbrushes are terrible slow since the brush heads are in the size of one teeth, instead of 3-4.

willcipriano 2y ago

You know the underpants gnomes, it's like that: Step 1: collect data Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit Hopefully you sell the company between Step 1 and 2.

wholinator2 2y ago

Well, say the app requests access to your contacts... so you can link up with friends! Or your files... so it can save your data locally! Or your location... well i don't know. The app doesn't only check your bruhing habits, it's 300mb! At any point it could be updated to do any amount of spying and you'll never be able to tell

Bluestein 2y ago
> link up with friends! Competitive brushing!
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  That is the first thing I see in this thread that has a remote chance of being a legitimate feature! There are people who have trouble brushing regularly, and perhaps it could help some of them.
  - Bluestein 2y ago
    (You know what? Great point, actually ...)
- ahazred8ta 2y ago
  Oral Peloton
  - anakaine 2y ago
    A group of cyclists is known as a Peloton. Do with that what you will with regards to "Oral Peloton".
    - Bluestein 2y ago
      We need a motto. Let's A/B "Where the only teeth inlvolved are in gears!".-

uhtred 2y ago

What permissions does the app ask for? Most likely location for some bullshit Bluetooth feature, and no doubt they request other permissions like contacts and media so you can share with friends that you clean your teeth. Hey, now oral b know where you are all the time, who you know etc

kjellsbells 2y ago
Looking at my android...notifications and nearby BT devices. Thats it.

johndough 2y ago

> What they know is how long the toothbrush is on. How are they going to monetize that data? "We noticed that brushing takes you X seconds longer than usual. Do you want to buy new bristles for your tooth brush?" "We noticed you haven't used our tooth brush in a while. Do you want to buy our new tooth brush?" "We noticed that you started brushing your teeth earlier than usual. This probably means that you started a new job and can afford our new deluxe premium tooth brush." "We noticed that you brush your teeth later than usual. That probably means that you met with someone who you can recommend our amazing tooth brush to." "We noticed that your tooth brushing times are all over the place, so you probably had a child. Buy our new baby tooth brush." And that is just from the time you brush your teeth. However, the app also collections "Health and fitness and Device or other IDs" according to the app description: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pg.oralb.oralbapp&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pg.oralb.o... That means that Oral B can link that data with the data harvested from other apps or data brokers, so they probably know everything about you. Health data seems especially creepy to me. I wonder if it is possible to measure the effectiveness of an advertisement from the heart rate data. At least they can definitely tell if you brush longer after seeing their latest Oral B add on TV/YouTube/some website.

mturmon 2y ago
Yeah, regarding your first point -- the replacement brushes are also an Oral-B product, so prompting for frequent replacement of the brushes would be a way to make more money.
- mbirth 2y ago
  In my Sonicare, the brush heads have an NFC chip in them that stores the “runtime”. After xx uses an icon starts blinking on the handle and the app will tell you that the brush head needs to be replaced. But at least you’re free to ignore that and continue using it.
  - mrwizardno2 2y ago
    For now... Just wait, some bright-eyed underling will undoubtedly see this comment and then pitch their boss: "Man, oh man! I know how we can increase revenue, let's DISABLE brush heads when they hit 90 days and FORCE the user to buy a new one!" You've just doomed us all. >.< hah!

alasdair_ 2y ago

Sell it to dental insurance companies who charge different amounts depending on how frequently you brush your teeth and for how long?

kuhl 2y ago
This is what Beam Dental did. They used to make a toothbrush and I'm betting they now license their tech to toothbrush makers and act as the middle man for dental insurance companies.

kelnos 2y ago

I can think of a few things at least: * Collect data on brushing frequency and thoroughness, and sell that data to dental insurance companies. Perhaps not even anonymized, so they can raise your premiums if you don't brush as often or as well as they'd like. * Nag you to buy brush replacements after a certain amount of time or certain number of uses. * Use dark patterns to trick you into giving access to other, unrelated data on your phone, and sell this data to third parties. * Market their other products to you, or even perhaps suggest other things (sold by marketing partners) to buy, like different kinds of toothpaste, floss, mouthwash, etc.

api 2y ago
That's why most apps exist, which is why I try to install as few apps as possible.
JasserInicide 2y ago
so they can raise your premiums if you don't brush as often or as well as they'd like. Shit's already fucking happening with car insurance. Install their app to reduce your premium! It's only a matter of time before it's the other way around.
al2o3cr 2y ago
sell that data to dental insurance companies I know of at least one startup that tried this the other way - started with a networked toothbrush and created a dental insurer that tracked how much you used it. They've pivoted away from that to general benefits management (basically every flavor of job-connected insurance that isn't major medical), FWIW...

pfdietz 2y ago

"Here's a list of consumers who were gullible enough to install our app!"

conductr 2y ago

They want you to buy new head and they will annoy, I mean notify you, until you do so via the app.

noman-land 2y ago

Having an app on someone's phone is a huge attention and data opportunity. You get permissions to whatever you ask for. The unsavvy user will click yes. You get a push notification channel that can interrupt the user ANY time of day or night and get their immediate attention. Suggesting products and "deals". Use your imagination. Think like an asshole.

chemmail 2y ago

China pays big bucks for the data so they know exactly when everyone is brushing their teeth and know exactly what time to attack.

somedude895 2y ago

The app probably makes you enter personal information like age and location, which is already very valuable. But honestly I'd say that it's probably more about them being able to market their own products to you by displaying ads and sending you push notifications on new deals on brushes, rather than selling your data to third parties.

genocidicbunny 2y ago

That sort of data can be extremely useful to pattern someone. Most people brush their teeth either in the morning, or before bedtime (or both ideally.) So just knowing _when_ they're brushing their teeth you can determine their sleep pattern, and thus match that up somewhat to a timezone. On it's own this isn't incredibly useful, but combined with some other data it becomes a lot more useful to identify someone.