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I'm a Canadian living in the states. The joke I tell my family is that I go to Canada to hear about US news. The other joke I have goes like this: the problem
by api_or_ipa 2y ago
I'm a Canadian living in the states. The joke I tell my family is that I go to Canada to hear about US news. The other joke I have goes like this: the problem with Canada is that America thinks Canada is Europe, Europe thinks it's America and Canadians think they're American.
- b112 2y agoI know you're joking, and fair enough, but I cannot let this comment stand ... joke or not. Canadians do not remotely ever think they are Americans, at all. Not even subconsciously. I have a great respect for the US. Realistically, feel the US is family, and like family, I love and care for it. Yet at the same time, sometimes I shake my head, wonder what my sibling is doing, baffled... often concerned out of care for them, sometimes out of self interest. Yet I still care, and want the best for them.. even if pissed off, angry, or upset with that sibling. There is so much shared history, coupled with so much bafflement. I guess the best way to put it, is the relationship Canada has with the US is exceptionally nuanced, and this holds true for many Canadians.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rootusrootus 2y agoNo worries, many of us south of that border are baffled as well. But it's not like you guys are completely normal ;-). For example, Confederate flags are actually a thing in Canada. That's wild to me.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- b112 2y agoThose aren't Confederate flags! As my history teacher explained to me, back in the day, a small offshoot of Confederates had it with the war. They were weary. They were exhausted. And so, as many American hippies and conscientious objectors have done in the past, they decided to flee to Canada. At this time however, they were worried about passing through Yankee territory, and also about their own troops shooting them for desertion. So, cleverly they modified their flag, and their uniforms, in subtle yet not quite discernible ways. When approached, they would hold up their hands and describe at great length that the flag was much like the Ship of Theseus, each thread had been carefully replaced, and that their philosophical belief was that it therefore was not a Confederate flag. It may seem and look as such, but it as most certainly not! "What!", they would decry at such statements, "Are you ignorant louts! Have you no philosophical roots?", and so soldiers would feel great shame, and let them pass. Thus after much hardship they managed to cross the border, settle down in a small town. I'm sure the flag you saw was probably only isolated to that one rural town though, but even so it just looked like a Confederate flag. It was instead copied from that other, unique flag.
- alexb_ 2y agoThere's a much simpler explanation, which is that there are racist Canadians.
- Cheer2171 2y agoThis is false. It makes no sense. It can't be found anywhere. It reads like a bad Monty Python sketch. I can't tell if you're joking or if your history teacher was.
- hughesjj 2y ago> they would hold up their hands and describe at great length that the flag was much like the Ship of Theseus Okay that got a good chuckle out of me lol. Quality shitpost, could have sprinkled some lost cause/daughters of the Confederacy gaslighting in there too
- ben_w 2y ago> For example, Confederate flags are actually a thing in Canada. That's wild to me. Also seen one in Cambridge. And I don't mean Cambridge Massachusetts, I mean the original.
- prewett 2y agoAt least it's relatively culturally neutral in Cambridge, UK. Putting up a Confederate flag in Cambridge, MA feels like it would be risking property damage the next time the Progressive student mob gets a bee in their bonnet.
- vkou 2y agoIt's a shame that harmless political ideologies, like the belief that some people should be enslaved as chattel based on the colour of their skin aren't awarded the respect they deserve. Next thing you know, people will start getting their knickers in a twist over someone flying a Daesh flag.
- 8note 2y agoSome examples of Canadians thinking they're Americans include the Convoy on the Canadian right larping as right wing Americans, and the "assault weapons ban" on the Canadian left larping as American Democrats. Both of which aimed to solve for problems faced by Americans in America by doing something in Canada, when the same problems don't apply to Canada.
- voisin 2y agoHow about our Prime Minister LARPing as a Democrat and spending a ton of money on a school lunch program that as far as I can tell (being an avid consumer of news across the country’s political spectrum) no one has ever suggested was an issue north of the border? At a time when we are already ludicrously overspending, no less.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- switchbak 2y agoWell to be fair, most of that LARPing is being done by our PM who likes to piggyback on the cache of big American news stories. That's seen by many of us as being ridiculous.
- randomdata 2y ago> Canadians do not remotely ever think they are Americans, at all. Nah. Canadians regularly see themselves as Americans with respect to political processes and laws. Presumably because of said American media consumption and believing what it portrays also applies to Canada.
- 8jef 2y agoEven dogs might think (dream) they are humans. Close encounters will do that. https://mymodernmet.com/dogs-dream-about-humans/ https://mymodernmet.com/dogs-dream-about-humans/
- peab 2y agoAlmost the entire Canadian identity is based around the fact that they aren't american
- astrodust 2y agoIt's paradoxical. Like the famous I Am Canadian ad campaign being the product of a famous Canadian brewer...that was subsequently acquired by an American conglomerate. Like how Tim Horton's, the quintessential Canadian institution, was bought by Burger King and remains "Canadian" if only for tax reasons.
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago> that was subsequently acquired by an American conglomerate. Many countries and cultures are struggling with the excessive power of American capital, it bring with it Us-style management and 'way of doing things'.
- abdullahkhalids 2y agoAs an immigrant to Canada, I don't think Canadians think of themselves as Americans, but they are way too much affected by what is happening in the US. I bet if you rated all countries in the world by how much common people know and spend time looking at the internal politics of neighboring countries, Canada would be easily top 5. On the other hand, most countries outside North/South America have thousands of years of shared history, unlike the 3-4 hundred ones by (non-native) Americans. In my opinion, Canadian should stop with this obsession and engage more with local politics.
- alephnerd 2y ago> but they are way too much affected by what is happening in the US Same with Mexico, but Mexicans are nowhere near as addicted to American news (Spanish language or English language). TBH, most people consume news as entertainment, and outside of Postmedia Network media, Canadian reporting is fairly bland and boring. Also, having spent some of my youth in rural and urban BC, in most cases purely Canadian television media didn't even really exist - everyone would be watching either a reskin of an American channel (Family Channel aka Disney) or an American channel (CNN, PBS, Fox). Sure you had CBC but it was filled with ads and never talked about local issues anyhow. That said, Western Canada is for all intents and purposes the exact same as Washington/Montana/Alaska - almost everyone in BC, AB, and the territories has at least 1 close relative who's an American or immigrated to America, and the only difference was that signs were occasionally in French, BC Ferries had a tiny portrait of Queen Elizabeth tucked in a random corridor next to a portrait of Harper or Trudeau, and Costco served poutine and charged 2x for milk and goods compared to the one in Bellingham
- tchalla 2y ago> In my opinion, Canadian should stop with this obsession and engage more with local politics. In my opinion, this should be done by the entire world instead of obsessing over a no named senator said something scandalous on Twitter
- bigstrat2003 2y agoIndeed. Not just other countries, either. Here in America we need to stop being hyper-fixated on the news cycle too. It's extremely unhealthy.
- switchbak 2y agoThis is 1000% correct. Canada is definitely not defined by "being American", or as Peter Zeihan would say: "passive-aggressively not-American". Of course, when you're a small nation right next to the most powerful nation the world has ever seen, it's easy to have your media sphere be overwhelmed by the glut coming from south of the border. This is especially true as institutions like the CBC and NFB have come into increasing irrelevance while the internet replaces them. But this should not be misinterpreted as the country missing an identity or viewing itself as the same as the USA - that's simply not the case. On a casual viewing, the similarity of external culture looks the same: we have the same shops, the same ugly modern strip malls, etc. We mostly look at talk somewhat the same, certainly in urban centers. But when you dive into the heart of our cultures, we had very different histories, and that's reflected in some big societal discrepancies. The USA is a bit of an outlier in a number of ways, and in many ways Canada resembles Scandinavian countries more than the USA.
- TeaBrain 2y agoI think the Canadian living in the US that you responded to was close to the mark. Most Americans have little contact with Canadians and many think of Canada abstractly, but not very accurately, as a European-like country located above the US. Beyond this abstract idea, most Americans don't have any reason to think about Canada on a regular basis. Also, Canadians may not think of themselves as Americans, but young Anglo-Canadians are products of American culture. I roomed in college with one for a year and nothing was distinctly non-American about him besides the accent.
- zeroCalories 2y agoCanadian culture is a vague and vacuous hole with the strongest defining feature being their insistence that they're not Americans. Someone from the UK or Mexico is so uniquely different that these's never been any confusion, but Canadians are constantly coping over this. Reminds me of how Texas is always threatening to leave the country.
- garrickvanburen 2y agoThe siblings metaphore is apt. War Plan Red by Kevin Lippert suggests relations between the two countries is also similar to mutually annoyed suburban neighbors.
- rootusrootus 2y agoWhen I was younger (decades ago...) Canada felt more 'exotic' than it does today. That may just be me getting older and less awed by new things, but I'm struck every time I visit by how much like America Canada is. Maybe that's why I like it so much. America but with universal health care :). Disclaimer: I only ever go to BC (and I have lived in the PNW most of my life), so this might be a very biased hot take. I bet Quebec is a little bit different, as well as the other provinces & territories.
- hermitcrab 2y agoI went to Vancouver last year. It my first time in Canada and I was surprised how similar to an American big city it felt.
- astrodust 2y agoIt's probably because all kinds of movies set in American cities are filmed in Vancouver.
- b112 2y agoWhat radio and then TV did, the Internet has continued. The world is shrinking, its cultures are merging, one day there will be one language, and one culture, or... maybe two yelling at each other. I once heard, in the early 2000s, that more than 1/2 the languages spoken 150 years ago are gone.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- bobthepanda 2y agoeh, the internet also provides plenty of ways to split off into subcultures. maybe the subcultures cut across traditional nationalities but they're still there.
- switchbak 2y agoCanada is being "Americanized", and the media and entertainment landscape is at the forefront of that. I will say though, weighing in on a neighbouring nation while only having visited one of its provinces strikes me as a little bit conceited. A visit to BC is not going to give you much of a perspective of the diversity of this country. Also: our health care is amongst the worst of the western nations at this stage. Subsequent governments have carved it away to be a shell of its former self.
- freitzkriesler2 2y ago[dead]
- jedberg 2y ago> America thinks Canada is Europe When I go to Montreal, I definitely feel this way. The rest of Canada feels pretty much like a clean America.
- ragebol 2y agoLOL, I liked to describe Montreal as 'France done the American way' when I was there once for a week couple years ago.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- petre 2y agoAmerica without guns and racial violence, BLM, Trump. Although they did have the convoy protests, it didn't escalate into an attack on the Parliament like in the US.
- grecy 2y agoAlso with healthcare, a social safety net, people that care about each other and friendly , warm people. I was in the US for 5 months, then visited Canada for the first time after one hour I felt more at home there And the convoy protests were funded by interests in the US. So it was a US political protest on Canadian soil.
- coryrc 2y agoWithout racial violence? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/class-action-rcmp-abuse-indigenous-people-certified-1.6076962 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/class-action-rcmp-abuse...
- skissane 2y agoIt depends on what one is referring to by "racial violence". The US has a long history of race riots, which have led to numerous deaths. While race riots have also happened in Canadian history, they have been far less frequent, and resulted in significantly less deaths. And the disparity remains even if you take into account the difference in size of the population.
- screye 2y agoHas anglo-Canada ever been meaningfully distinct from the US ? It is as tightly bound to the US as Puerto Rico. I can't imagine Canada adopting economic, military or cultural policies that favor US enemies without being strong-armed out of it by the US. It is a charged question, and I mean it as a hypothetical. But countries form through common language, culture, religion, geography, interests or trauma/war. Anglo-Canada and the US have all the good things in common and no war/trauma keeping them apart. At times, Anglo-Canadians feel more distinct from French-Canadians than they do most Americans. Ofc, if you've been a stable nation for century+, then there's no good reason to fix what's not broken.
- qball 2y ago>if you've been a stable nation for century+ Quebec has tried to separate twice in the past 50 years, and comes within a Brexit's margin of actually getting it done (and if it wasn't for Montreal, they'd already be gone). The seed of that separation was, naturally, caused by a military conflict between what would become Western Canada and what used to be Upper Canada. Canada isn't actually as stable a country as Ottawa might have you believe.
- alephnerd 2y agoThis might make you feel old, but the referendum was 30 years ago, and Black October was 55 years ago. The whole Quebec movement is basically dead in the water now. An entire generation of Canadians didn't exist or don't remember that. I'd argue the GWOT, the Great Recession, and COVID have had a stronger impact on modern (2020s) Canadian politics and discourse than the Quebec Independence Movement.
- qball 2y ago>The whole Quebec movement is basically dead in the water now. Quebec's Separatist party has complete electoral dominance (except for Montreal, but Montreal is the least Quebec part of Quebec) and has the ability to force the government's hand on most things. If the Eastern Big City Party loses the next election as is projected (and the Bloc correspondingly loses all of its power) they'll be back.
- hervature 2y ago> Canadians think they're American As a Canadian who is in the process of immigrating to the US, I feel that most Canadians think they are more similar to European than American. I'm basing this from having interacted with many Canadians during grad school in the US whom it would greatly trouble them if someone thought they were American. Perhaps it is a generational thing because I think my parents would probably say American if forced to choose but would say they are Canadians. Perhaps it is an international student perspective. I think most Canadians who think they are American just immigrate.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoThat was definitely a thing during the Iraq war.
- GJim 2y ago> As a Canadian who is in the process of immigrating to the US Curious choice of words. Why not 'emigrating' to the US?
- hervature 2y agoUsually emigrate focuses on the country of departure. All the forms I'm filling out have to do with immigration and not emigration because the process of leaving a country is not usually the legal hurdle.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Canadians think they're American In my experience, many (Anglo) Canadians behave like the coastal Americans who think of themselves as rather not American despite behaving very, very American.
- llm_trw 2y agoI always find it funny how well coastal Americans diagnose the maladies that plague America while at the same time thinking they only infect inland Americans. Case in point: America is a racist country. But the racial quotas in Ivy League Universities are perfectly fair. There is nothing wrong with punishing Chinese immigrants for the sins of English colonists from the two centuries ago.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> America is a racist country. But the racial quotas in Ivy League Universities are perfectly fair One I realised I fell into was universally condemning everyone from places I hadn’t been as ignorant. I think what stalls the self awareness is that you think you’re just joking. But you’re not. You’re socially reäffirming a stereotype.
- bilbo0s 2y agoI'd say you two are pretty much like most Americans. ie - You readily identify the problems endemic to all the other Americans. I do it too. It's the way we're socialized here in the US via everything from the media and music to political speeches. What would be really interesting to know is if either of you are non-American? I have a sense that this proclivity might not be simply an American thing. I've wondered more and more if it's just human?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> readily identify the problems endemic to all the other Americans I’d call out honest self reflection in small groups as uniquely and proudly American. We don’t have small group face-saving as a strong cultural streak. Almost in inverse, we champion it as a sign of trust and intimacy. > interesting to know is if either of you are non-American Immigrant American. We tend to be so convinced of our blue-blooded Americanness that we unblushingly use phrases like “blue-blooded American.” More seriously, America is a superpower. Look at the contemporaries of any great superpower—Rome, the Han Dynasty, the Abbasid, the Ottoman, the British and the USSR—and the dominant narrative—paranoia, almost—is one of decline. Because that’s what’s left. There isn’t a competitor to aspire to. There isn’t pressure to improve. It’s partly why I think a bipolar world is for the best, even if it’s quite deadly—America and China competing is good. Russia diddlyfucking
- ahazred8ta 2y agoMy ex-ca coworker's cousin is a mountie. Often as he's stuffing some miscreant into a squad car the guy will say "Hey, you didn't read me my rights."
- t-3 2y agoA funny thing is that reading the rights to the arrestee isn't even the law in much of the US.
- TMWNN 2y agoCanada has its own equivalent of Miranda rights, as do many other countries. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence#Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence#Canada>
- reso 2y agoCanadians who visit any major American city for a day think we're basically the same. Canadians who visit for a year think we are totally different.
- JohnFen 2y ago> The joke I tell my family is that I go to Canada to hear about US news. As an American, I get most of my US news from Canadian sources these days. They tend to be a whole lot better.