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There is no logical inconsistency here. Durov, a citizen of France, failed to comply with their own country's process. This isn't a "random country" applied "fo

There is no logical inconsistency here. Durov, a citizen of France, failed to comply with their own country's process. This isn't a "random country" applied "for anyone".

OutOfHere 2y ago
But is Telegram incorporated in France? Are Durov and Telegram one and the same? No and no.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > is Telegram incorporated in France? Are Durov and Telegram one and the same? No and no You're proposing that France shouldn't be able to arrest the leader of a cartel or mafia if they file paperwork in Delaware?
- freejazz 2y ago
  Demanding logical consistency yet hiding behind the farce of incorporation state... does Telegram do business in France?
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  One will find that countries don't really distinguish when it's one of their citizens taking action and those citizens are within the country's jurisdiction. Governments are funny like that. If I go to Germany and kill a man in the street, I might not end up under arrest if I go to, say, Russia, but if I go back to my home country? Yeah, they'd arrest me for a crime committed elsewhere in someone else's jurisdiction we're allied with.
- af78 2y ago
  Telegram operates in France, this is sufficient. Edit: By "operates" I mean its services are accessible from France. If an entity cannot or will not comply with EU laws (e.g. GDPR) they can block clients from the EU. I regularly come across such websites with geoblocks (a few times a year).
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    Are any of their servers actually in France? Or is anybody with a website automatically "operating" in Iran, China and Egypt?
    - rvnx 2y ago
      You can access the service from France, and you can create an account from a French number. Also the website is in French and the illegal messages are likely in French. This is far enough. Now add on top, that the CEO is French on French soil...
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        > You can access the service from France You can access substantially all internet services from France, and from any other country that doesn't explicitly block them, and from most of the ones that do via satellite internet or VPNs etc. > you can create an account from a French number. You can have a French number and not be in France. Also, this is the location of the user, not the company. This is basically the same reasoning as the internet; the phone network is global and anybody can call anybody. That doesn't mean that every service provider is in every country. > Also the website is in French and the illegal messages are likely in French. There are millions of people who speak French who aren't in France. > Now add on top, that the CEO is French on French soil... But we're talking about where the company is operating. Should France arrest the French CEO of a US company that does something in the US which is legal in the US but not in France?
        rvnx 2y ago
        For internet websites, if a website can be accessed from France, then the French law applies. It's under the same principle that Megaupload was shut down by the US, despite the company was not connected to the US or operating from the US. This is why some websites block visitors from France (e.g. newspapers not willing to bother with GDPR for example) or that some sites block visitors, registrations and payments from the US (e.g. investment websites). Here Telegram refuses to respect French law. Whether they are ethically right or not, it's one debate, but in the meantime, the detectives want to gather elements. It's the standard way that police talks there. They don't send lawyers. Instead they put you in custody for interrogation. A bit rude, I recognize it, though relatively common. Even the French CEO of Uber was sent in custody there.
- lovethevoid 2y ago
  It's a good thing France didn't arrest Telegram then ;)

There is no logical inconsistency here. Durov, a citizen of France, failed to comply with their own country's process. This isn't a "random country" applied "for anyone".

OutOfHere 2y ago

But is Telegram incorporated in France? Are Durov and Telegram one and the same? No and no.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> is Telegram incorporated in France? Are Durov and Telegram one and the same? No and no You're proposing that France shouldn't be able to arrest the leader of a cartel or mafia if they file paperwork in Delaware?
freejazz 2y ago
Demanding logical consistency yet hiding behind the farce of incorporation state... does Telegram do business in France?
shadowgovt 2y ago
One will find that countries don't really distinguish when it's one of their citizens taking action and those citizens are within the country's jurisdiction. Governments are funny like that. If I go to Germany and kill a man in the street, I might not end up under arrest if I go to, say, Russia, but if I go back to my home country? Yeah, they'd arrest me for a crime committed elsewhere in someone else's jurisdiction we're allied with.
af78 2y ago
Telegram operates in France, this is sufficient. Edit: By "operates" I mean its services are accessible from France. If an entity cannot or will not comply with EU laws (e.g. GDPR) they can block clients from the EU. I regularly come across such websites with geoblocks (a few times a year).
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  Are any of their servers actually in France? Or is anybody with a website automatically "operating" in Iran, China and Egypt?
  - rvnx 2y ago
    You can access the service from France, and you can create an account from a French number. Also the website is in French and the illegal messages are likely in French. This is far enough. Now add on top, that the CEO is French on French soil...
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      > You can access the service from France You can access substantially all internet services from France, and from any other country that doesn't explicitly block them, and from most of the ones that do via satellite internet or VPNs etc. > you can create an account from a French number. You can have a French number and not be in France. Also, this is the location of the user, not the company. This is basically the same reasoning as the internet; the phone network is global and anybody can call anybody. That doesn't mean that every service provider is in every country. > Also the website is in French and the illegal messages are likely in French. There are millions of people who speak French who aren't in France. > Now add on top, that the CEO is French on French soil... But we're talking about where the company is operating. Should France arrest the French CEO of a US company that does something in the US which is legal in the US but not in France?
      - rvnx 2y ago
        For internet websites, if a website can be accessed from France, then the French law applies. It's under the same principle that Megaupload was shut down by the US, despite the company was not connected to the US or operating from the US. This is why some websites block visitors from France (e.g. newspapers not willing to bother with GDPR for example) or that some sites block visitors, registrations and payments from the US (e.g. investment websites). Here Telegram refuses to respect French law. Whether they are ethically right or not, it's one debate, but in the meantime, the detectives want to gather elements. It's the standard way that police talks there. They don't send lawyers. Instead they put you in custody for interrogation. A bit rude, I recognize it, though relatively common. Even the French CEO of Uber was sent in custody there.
lovethevoid 2y ago
It's a good thing France didn't arrest Telegram then ;)